![](\"https://files.fireside.fm/file/fireside-uploads/images/0/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/FogNRwqQ.jpeg\")
A special episode: Liz and Kat are guests on the Truth, Lies, & Work Podcast, where they talked about difficult conversations at work.
\n\nCheck out this episode with Liz and Kat on Difficult Conversations at Work, epsiode 137 of the Truth, Lies & Work podcast.
\n\nListen to the episode right here or listen to this bonus episode right here in your Real Job Talk feed.
\n\n\n\nWelcome to Truth, Lies & Work, the award-winning psychology podcast brought to you by the HubSpot Podcast Network. Join hosts Leanne Elliott, chartered psychologist, and Al Elliott, business owner, as they help you simplify the science of work.
\nIn today’s episode, we’re tackling one of the most challenging aspects of workplace dynamics - having difficult conversations. We’re joined by two outstanding experts in the world of people and culture, Kathleen Troyer and Liz Bronson, co-hosts of the Real Job Talk podcast.
\nTogether, they share practical advice on how to handle conflict, polarizing topics, and tough discussions at work.
Meet Our Guests:
\n • Kathleen Troyer is the CEO and Lead Consultant at Jigsaw Solutions Inc., where she specializes in leadership development and business strategy. Known for helping leaders engage in uncomfortable but necessary conversations, Kat shares her insights on creating psychologically safe workplaces.
\n • Liz Bronson, a Global Professional in Human Resources (GPHR), has dedicated her career to fostering inclusive and supportive company cultures. Her experience spans companies like Barclays Global Investors, VMware, and ThriveCart.
The Impact of External Events on Workplace Dynamics
\nKat and Liz discuss how global events like political upheavals, economic instability, and distressing news have forever altered how we interact in the workplace.
How to Defuse Tension and Maintain a Positive Culture
\nIn today’s polarized world, workplace conflict is inevitable. Our guests explore how leaders can guide difficult conversations, focusing on empathy, transparency, and respect.
Bringing Your Whole Self to Work
\nKat and Liz debate whether this is truly feasible in today's diverse workplaces and discuss the importance of creating inclusive environments where everyone feels they belong, regardless of differing opinions.
Aligning Company Values with Employee Behavior
\nKat and Liz stress the importance of living company values, not just displaying them on a wall.
When to Have the Uncomfortable Conversation
\nOur guests provide practical advice on how to approach difficult conversations when tensions rise in the workplace.
We have a letter! A listener asks us what they should do if everything is just good. They’re restless: work is good, they make good money, have work/life balance, but they're wondering if this is it. Our listener’s name is “Restless” and we explore how they should approach this mid-career moment.
\n\nFirst - everything is relative. The grass can be greener on someone else’s hill, but your grass may be really green to someone else. We tell Restless that they need to explore why they’re feeling this way. What is at the root of their restlessness? Is there something they want to achieve that they haven’t?
\n\nIn the meantime, we told Restless to seek out some new projects, find out what other teams are working on, and see if he could participate or at least listen in.
\n\nCareer mid-life crises are just as common as life mid-life crises. So, what do you do? Assess what’s going well and what you don’t want, and see if you can learn something new or push yourself in a new area to keep yourself moving.
\n\nWe stress that learning and staying on top of trends and technologies is always important and going on a learning mission will help them feel fresh and less stuck.
\n\nWe send Restless on a journey to understand their internal desires as well as an external exploration of what they aren’t doing. Start asking people - internally and externally - what they are working on, and see if you can join in - or at least observe to learn and expand your knowledge. By learning about what others are working on, we can be inspired and think of new things that are exciting.
\n\nWe also tell Restless that sometimes in life we are all in at work, and sometimes we are doing our job and focusing on other things. Restless says they have work/life balance. We tell them to really lean into that and go to the baseball game, or appreciate that family time.
\n\nRestless’ life sounds pretty awesome: good pay, work/life balance, remote work, and interesting projects. We caution them to be careful when framing their restlessness so that they open a dialogue and not annoy people. It’s a pretty sweet situation and while we love the candor for us, they need to be really aware of their audience and approach the conversation from a place of curiosity vs complaining.
\n\nWe tell Restless to lean into gratitude as an antidote for complacency and to look at work as a part of a whole, rich life.
","summary":"Liz and Kat tackle the question:- is the grass really greener on the other side?","date_published":"2024-08-06T07:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/9565cddd-5c0b-4aa4-9328-2005e4ca9f14.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":11708582,"duration_in_seconds":731}]},{"id":"ed406a42-5bbe-42f3-a61c-a52f87b2008d","title":"Episode 95: Red Flags in the Job Search Process","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/95-red-flags-in-the-job-search-process","content_text":"We’re talking from experience about red flags, especially in the job search process, where your gut fits into decision making and how to listen for those flags.\n\nKat tells her story from 20 years ago about her first HR Leadership role where she joined a company working for a husband and wife team. The offer was lower than her comfort zone with a bonus to get her there. She then needed to clock in, which is unknown in leadership roles. When Kat got home from her first week on the job, she said to her husband, “One week down, 51 to go”, but in reality, she left after 6 months to preserve her mental health and well-being. This decision led to Kat starting her own business which has been thriving for 21 years.\n\nLiz’s story is more recent. A recruiter sent an AI-written no-personality job description, and then there was a fast interview process which led to a funky feeling. The offer came with terrible benefits - a big red flag that shows you don’t care about people. The red flags were all true, and while she tried to focus on the positive, it ended up being untenable and her gut got a lot less twisty once she left.\n\nOne big flag to point out is this: would you take the job if you had a job? If the answer is no, why? If it’s because things don’t feel right, listen to that!\n\nOfficial advice #1: The Job Description: Is it written by AI? Boring? Trying to help draw you in? Include company values? Do you know what the company does, what the job is, is there a career page selling you on the company?\n\nOfficial advice #2: The recruiting process. What’s it like? Do you feel they know you at all? Is there a decision process or does it go on forever? Have you met your boss, a few colleagues? It’s a red flag if you don’t feel like they know what they want and what they’re looking for. \n\nOfficial advice #3: Look at Glassdoor, PunchBowl, Reddit, and other sites that talk about the experience working at the company. Look for threads in the reviews- not just the 1 from an angry employee. Look at the recent feedback on what it’s like there. The score is important, but know that companies try to manipulate their score….pay attention if there are lots of positive reviews with zero substance. \n\nOfficial advice #4: Is the team diverse? Look on Linkedin and see who works there. Is everyone white and under 30 in suits and ties? Do they indicate that they want diverse teams and points of view?\n\nOfficial advice #5: Does the benefits package indicate that they care about their people? What’s covered? How much are they contributing? We’ve never seen a great place to work with terrible benefits. \n\nOfficial advice #6: Do they encourage your questions? Answer directly? Belittle you for asking questions? RED FLAG. If you ever feel like your requests are being blown off, word salad or more, it’s a huge indicator of what the company is like to work at. \n\nOfficial advice #7: Your gut is saying no. If you’re not excited about signing the offer, it’s for a good reason. It’s hard to not listen to your brain and your bank account, but let your gut have a say in the decision.\n\nIf you do go against your gut, we’ve got some clear advice for you. \n\nDon’t announce it on Linkedin right away.\n\nDon’t stop interviewing >> if your brain and your bank account win out and you try something new, it’s ok to keep interviewing if you really don’t think it’s a fit.\n\nBe artfully honest when people ask you how things are going- lead with the positive, but tell people you’re still open to new opportunities.\n\nIf it’s not a big fit, look for the good people you haven’t met, the story, the learnings. There are good things that come out of good stints.","content_html":"We’re talking from experience about red flags, especially in the job search process, where your gut fits into decision making and how to listen for those flags.
\n\nKat tells her story from 20 years ago about her first HR Leadership role where she joined a company working for a husband and wife team. The offer was lower than her comfort zone with a bonus to get her there. She then needed to clock in, which is unknown in leadership roles. When Kat got home from her first week on the job, she said to her husband, “One week down, 51 to go”, but in reality, she left after 6 months to preserve her mental health and well-being. This decision led to Kat starting her own business which has been thriving for 21 years.
\n\nLiz’s story is more recent. A recruiter sent an AI-written no-personality job description, and then there was a fast interview process which led to a funky feeling. The offer came with terrible benefits - a big red flag that shows you don’t care about people. The red flags were all true, and while she tried to focus on the positive, it ended up being untenable and her gut got a lot less twisty once she left.
\n\nOne big flag to point out is this: would you take the job if you had a job? If the answer is no, why? If it’s because things don’t feel right, listen to that!
\n\nOfficial advice #1: The Job Description: Is it written by AI? Boring? Trying to help draw you in? Include company values? Do you know what the company does, what the job is, is there a career page selling you on the company?
\n\nOfficial advice #2: The recruiting process. What’s it like? Do you feel they know you at all? Is there a decision process or does it go on forever? Have you met your boss, a few colleagues? It’s a red flag if you don’t feel like they know what they want and what they’re looking for.
\n\nOfficial advice #3: Look at Glassdoor, PunchBowl, Reddit, and other sites that talk about the experience working at the company. Look for threads in the reviews- not just the 1 from an angry employee. Look at the recent feedback on what it’s like there. The score is important, but know that companies try to manipulate their score….pay attention if there are lots of positive reviews with zero substance.
\n\nOfficial advice #4: Is the team diverse? Look on Linkedin and see who works there. Is everyone white and under 30 in suits and ties? Do they indicate that they want diverse teams and points of view?
\n\nOfficial advice #5: Does the benefits package indicate that they care about their people? What’s covered? How much are they contributing? We’ve never seen a great place to work with terrible benefits.
\n\nOfficial advice #6: Do they encourage your questions? Answer directly? Belittle you for asking questions? RED FLAG. If you ever feel like your requests are being blown off, word salad or more, it’s a huge indicator of what the company is like to work at.
\n\nOfficial advice #7: Your gut is saying no. If you’re not excited about signing the offer, it’s for a good reason. It’s hard to not listen to your brain and your bank account, but let your gut have a say in the decision.
\n\nIf you do go against your gut, we’ve got some clear advice for you.
\n\nDon’t announce it on Linkedin right away.
\n\nDon’t stop interviewing >> if your brain and your bank account win out and you try something new, it’s ok to keep interviewing if you really don’t think it’s a fit.
\n\nBe artfully honest when people ask you how things are going- lead with the positive, but tell people you’re still open to new opportunities.
\n\nIf it’s not a big fit, look for the good people you haven’t met, the story, the learnings. There are good things that come out of good stints.
","summary":"Kat and Liz talk from experience about red flags, especially in the job search process, where your gut fits into decision making and how to listen for those flags.\r\n","date_published":"2024-06-11T12:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/ed406a42-5bbe-42f3-a61c-a52f87b2008d.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":28483798,"duration_in_seconds":1779}]},{"id":"5b5da767-2f9f-4460-929d-c320e136757a","title":"Episode 94: Golden Handcuffs- What Do I Do?","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/94-listener-question-severance","content_text":"We have a letter! One of our listeners wrote to us with a question. They are stuck with what to do with their golden hancuffs. Their current employer was acquired by a larger company. The company wants them to stay, and has given them a year-long series of bonuses and severance if they stay long enough. But they'd also like to look around to see if there are other opportunities. They don’t know what to do about their bonus package in the job search: can they disclose it? Can they use it as leverage it as part of a job negotiation? \n\nIt’s a great question, and while we counseled them separately, we share our advice with each of you.\n\nWhat ARE golden handcuffs? They’re a way that a company incentivizes you to stay with them vs leave after a major change. For example, our listener’s company was acquired and they have golden handcuffs that pay them over the next 6 months to stay with the company vs leave for another job.\n\nFor our listener, they get bonuses every 3 months and then another payment if you stay through the pre-determined transition period.\n\nBecause our listener is early career, we advised them to stay and get experience with acquisitions and use the bonus package to accumulate a nest egg (assuming they can tolerate it). And we also advised them to not start looking for a new job right away, and instead to take time to make a must-have list, and then start searching 3 months before their last day.\n\nCan our listener use their package to get more money? If YOU are applying for jobs, you can’t use a retention program as leverage, but once someone is interested, or if you are being recruited, you may be able to use it. You can say “I’d love to be considered, but I have this retention package and am planning on staying through the end. Can you help keep me whole?” They likely won’t pay it all out, but maybe it will get you a sign-on bonus.\n\nDeciding what’s right to do? Look at your must-have list, look at what you want to learn, and as opportunities come your way, make lists of pros and cons guided by your must-have list to balance learning, opportunity, stability, and happiness.\n\nAnother interesting opportunity may come from the new company, so doing your best post-acquisition and learning about the new company, new ways to do things, and meeting a new network of people is a huge opportunity.\n\nPost-acquisition retention is an incredible learning opportunity. You have the opportunity to see how a new company does things and also see new groups and meet new people. Use the opportunity to learn and grow.\n\nIf you do get approached for a new job, tell them right away that you’re planning on staying through the period of your retention bonus and let them know what it looks like to see if they can help move you earlier. Stress that you’re most interested in learning, growth, and opportunity, and you’re willing to give up money for the right opportunity.\n\nIf you know you’re talking with a recruiter, write notes and make sure you’re ready for a clear and open conversation. Be confident in who you are, what you’re looking for, and what’s important to you.","content_html":"We have a letter! One of our listeners wrote to us with a question. They are stuck with what to do with their golden hancuffs. Their current employer was acquired by a larger company. The company wants them to stay, and has given them a year-long series of bonuses and severance if they stay long enough. But they'd also like to look around to see if there are other opportunities. They don’t know what to do about their bonus package in the job search: can they disclose it? Can they use it as leverage it as part of a job negotiation?
\n\nIt’s a great question, and while we counseled them separately, we share our advice with each of you.
\n\nWhat ARE golden handcuffs? They’re a way that a company incentivizes you to stay with them vs leave after a major change. For example, our listener’s company was acquired and they have golden handcuffs that pay them over the next 6 months to stay with the company vs leave for another job.
\n\nFor our listener, they get bonuses every 3 months and then another payment if you stay through the pre-determined transition period.
\n\nBecause our listener is early career, we advised them to stay and get experience with acquisitions and use the bonus package to accumulate a nest egg (assuming they can tolerate it). And we also advised them to not start looking for a new job right away, and instead to take time to make a must-have list, and then start searching 3 months before their last day.
\n\nCan our listener use their package to get more money? If YOU are applying for jobs, you can’t use a retention program as leverage, but once someone is interested, or if you are being recruited, you may be able to use it. You can say “I’d love to be considered, but I have this retention package and am planning on staying through the end. Can you help keep me whole?” They likely won’t pay it all out, but maybe it will get you a sign-on bonus.
\n\nDeciding what’s right to do? Look at your must-have list, look at what you want to learn, and as opportunities come your way, make lists of pros and cons guided by your must-have list to balance learning, opportunity, stability, and happiness.
\n\nAnother interesting opportunity may come from the new company, so doing your best post-acquisition and learning about the new company, new ways to do things, and meeting a new network of people is a huge opportunity.
\n\nPost-acquisition retention is an incredible learning opportunity. You have the opportunity to see how a new company does things and also see new groups and meet new people. Use the opportunity to learn and grow.
\n\nIf you do get approached for a new job, tell them right away that you’re planning on staying through the period of your retention bonus and let them know what it looks like to see if they can help move you earlier. Stress that you’re most interested in learning, growth, and opportunity, and you’re willing to give up money for the right opportunity.
\n\nIf you know you’re talking with a recruiter, write notes and make sure you’re ready for a clear and open conversation. Be confident in who you are, what you’re looking for, and what’s important to you.
","summary":"Liz and Kat discuss a listener question about severance packages, retention bonuses, and job searching. ","date_published":"2024-02-20T06:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/5b5da767-2f9f-4460-929d-c320e136757a.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":21039522,"duration_in_seconds":1051}]},{"id":"c4e52f99-a86e-414e-bc18-70d04c53159d","title":"Episode 93: How to Handle Your Company Card","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/93-how-to-handle-your-company-credit-card","content_text":"Today we’re talking about all things Company-Paid. We're here to help you understand and navigate the world of expenses. Here are the Real Job Talk guidelines for using your company credit card.\n\nGuideline 1: Look at your company handbook/rulebook and familiarize yourself with the company’s policies around expenses. There may be limits on hotels, guidelines around flights, and per diems for meals and drinks.\n\nIf you see friends during time in a new city, that needs to be on your dime - just like when you see friends at home. Your per diem is to cover you because you’re there for work, not for your cocktails with friends.\n\nGuideline 2: If it isn’t told to you, ASK! Can you buy yourself a mouse, monitor, or new desk? Ask the recruiter or hiring manager what will be covered by the company.\n\nGuideline 3: Convenience is key. You are traveling for WORK, so any bookings you do (hotel, office etc) need to be close to the work you are doing, not to the nearby city you’ve always wanted to visit.\n\nIf you travel to a city and you want to go sightseeing and learn about it, that's totally fine, but the time you spend as a tourist is on you -- because the company doesn’t need you doing it and it's not part of your job. That said, you can extend your trip with a later flight after your personal travel (the company owes you a round trip ticket, the dates are less important), but the hotels and food during your tourism are on you.\n\nGuideline 4: Treat the company’s money like your own. Want an upgrade for extra leg room, but that’s not in company policy? That’s on your dime. Think about saving up your per diem to buy your family dinner on your way home from the airport? The company doesn’t owe your family dinner -- and they could fire you or at least lose trust in you if they find out.\n\nBottom line: it’s not smart to abuse expenses. You could get fired. Don’t be fired for something so avoidable.\n\nGuideline 5: If it’s not for work, it’s not expensable. If you’re not sure, ASK. If you choose to work at a coffee shop instead of home one day, it’s not expensable. If you’re having lunch with friends and they say “How’s work?”, that’s not expensable. If you take your team out, it probably IS expensable. \n\nAnd when you can expense something, don’t bust the budget or order the most expensive thing you can. Don’t take advantage.\n\nGuideline 6: Use the systems you’re told to use. Follow Finance’s guidelines. Keep receipts. Stay on top of it so that your expenses are up to date. \n\nIf you pay attention to these guidelines - and to the guidelines of your company - you won't get into trouble with expenses at work. ","content_html":"Today we’re talking about all things Company-Paid. We're here to help you understand and navigate the world of expenses. Here are the Real Job Talk guidelines for using your company credit card.
\n\nGuideline 1: Look at your company handbook/rulebook and familiarize yourself with the company’s policies around expenses. There may be limits on hotels, guidelines around flights, and per diems for meals and drinks.
\n\nIf you see friends during time in a new city, that needs to be on your dime - just like when you see friends at home. Your per diem is to cover you because you’re there for work, not for your cocktails with friends.
\n\nGuideline 2: If it isn’t told to you, ASK! Can you buy yourself a mouse, monitor, or new desk? Ask the recruiter or hiring manager what will be covered by the company.
\n\nGuideline 3: Convenience is key. You are traveling for WORK, so any bookings you do (hotel, office etc) need to be close to the work you are doing, not to the nearby city you’ve always wanted to visit.
\n\nIf you travel to a city and you want to go sightseeing and learn about it, that's totally fine, but the time you spend as a tourist is on you -- because the company doesn’t need you doing it and it's not part of your job. That said, you can extend your trip with a later flight after your personal travel (the company owes you a round trip ticket, the dates are less important), but the hotels and food during your tourism are on you.
\n\nGuideline 4: Treat the company’s money like your own. Want an upgrade for extra leg room, but that’s not in company policy? That’s on your dime. Think about saving up your per diem to buy your family dinner on your way home from the airport? The company doesn’t owe your family dinner -- and they could fire you or at least lose trust in you if they find out.
\n\nBottom line: it’s not smart to abuse expenses. You could get fired. Don’t be fired for something so avoidable.
\n\nGuideline 5: If it’s not for work, it’s not expensable. If you’re not sure, ASK. If you choose to work at a coffee shop instead of home one day, it’s not expensable. If you’re having lunch with friends and they say “How’s work?”, that’s not expensable. If you take your team out, it probably IS expensable.
\n\nAnd when you can expense something, don’t bust the budget or order the most expensive thing you can. Don’t take advantage.
\n\nGuideline 6: Use the systems you’re told to use. Follow Finance’s guidelines. Keep receipts. Stay on top of it so that your expenses are up to date.
\n\nIf you pay attention to these guidelines - and to the guidelines of your company - you won't get into trouble with expenses at work.
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk about do's and don'ts for the corporate credit card and company expenses.","date_published":"2023-12-05T13:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/c4e52f99-a86e-414e-bc18-70d04c53159d.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":30663343,"duration_in_seconds":1277}]},{"id":"0369c8c0-add7-4c21-ab2b-94769f516580","title":"Episode 92: This Was All An Accident with Kat Kibben","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/92-this-was-all-an-accident-with-kat-kibben","content_text":"Welcome back to Real Job Talk, Kat Kibben! Kat (pronouns they/them) is the founder of Three Ears Media, a speaker, advocate, and leader in the HR space around inclusivity and job descriptions. We're really pleased to have Kat join us for a second time on the podcast. (Check out their first appearance, Episode 38: Write a Resume that Gets Past the Screeners with Katrina Kibben)\n\nEvery week, Kat writes a letter with their thoughts from that week. They started writing their letters as a marketing exercise, but found the letters got more personal and they eventually evolved to being about... life. Those letters are now a collection of stories titled This Was All An Accident focusing on their year of living in a van and traveling around the United States.\n\nAccording to Kat, the first step of accepting yourself is learning what it feels like to be happy. Kat started writing a list of what they were doing when they felt happy and then read the list every day and whenever they were feeling low.\n\nWe unpack the word “should” and redefining boundaries in a way that works for us. Can a CEO live in a van and work 4 days a week? How did Kat redefine their norms to adjust to van life? Scheduling in van life has to be flexible, and not only did Kat have to adjust their idea of what work looked like, but their team had to adjust and refine their set up.\n\nKat inspired Kat and John to take their own van trip. We discuss the planning of a van trip and how it’s a metaphor for life in that you can plan and plan, but you often run into and need things you don’t plan for. Both Kats learned that lesson in their van trips. Our lessons? Bring duct tape and an ax!\n\nWe dive into vulnerability. Kat felt most vulnerable when they learned that their estranged father was reading their book. They wrote it for teenagers and people who could use the lessons they’ve learned in their life. What they found was that it felt most vulnerable when they knew people who they know in their personal life were reading it. They’re more used to people they work with knowing more about them from their work.\n\nKat talks in their letters about hard things, but has very clear boundaries. Their rule is to not write about anything they aren’t certain about in their life. We talk more about boundaries and how they determine what to share and how to handle people who ask questions they aren’t ready to answer.\n\nLastly we talked about staying realistically positive without being toxic. Kat’s answer is to focus on now vs the huge picture so that life isn’t overwhelming.\n\nOne of Kat’s motivations is around helping kids, specifically queer and trans kids, feel comfortable and safe in their bodies. They mentor adults about being queer in the workplace and tell us some stories about how they help people live authentically.\n\nGet Kat's book, This Was All An Accident: Letters and Life Lessons on Amazon\nKat's blog and personal site: katrinakibben.com\nLinkedin: katrinakibben\nTwitter/X: @KatrinaKibben\nFacebook: katrina.kibben\nInstagram: @katrinakibben","content_html":"Welcome back to Real Job Talk, Kat Kibben! Kat (pronouns they/them) is the founder of Three Ears Media, a speaker, advocate, and leader in the HR space around inclusivity and job descriptions. We're really pleased to have Kat join us for a second time on the podcast. (Check out their first appearance, Episode 38: Write a Resume that Gets Past the Screeners with Katrina Kibben)
\n\nEvery week, Kat writes a letter with their thoughts from that week. They started writing their letters as a marketing exercise, but found the letters got more personal and they eventually evolved to being about... life. Those letters are now a collection of stories titled This Was All An Accident focusing on their year of living in a van and traveling around the United States.
\n\nAccording to Kat, the first step of accepting yourself is learning what it feels like to be happy. Kat started writing a list of what they were doing when they felt happy and then read the list every day and whenever they were feeling low.
\n\nWe unpack the word “should” and redefining boundaries in a way that works for us. Can a CEO live in a van and work 4 days a week? How did Kat redefine their norms to adjust to van life? Scheduling in van life has to be flexible, and not only did Kat have to adjust their idea of what work looked like, but their team had to adjust and refine their set up.
\n\nKat inspired Kat and John to take their own van trip. We discuss the planning of a van trip and how it’s a metaphor for life in that you can plan and plan, but you often run into and need things you don’t plan for. Both Kats learned that lesson in their van trips. Our lessons? Bring duct tape and an ax!
\n\nWe dive into vulnerability. Kat felt most vulnerable when they learned that their estranged father was reading their book. They wrote it for teenagers and people who could use the lessons they’ve learned in their life. What they found was that it felt most vulnerable when they knew people who they know in their personal life were reading it. They’re more used to people they work with knowing more about them from their work.
\n\nKat talks in their letters about hard things, but has very clear boundaries. Their rule is to not write about anything they aren’t certain about in their life. We talk more about boundaries and how they determine what to share and how to handle people who ask questions they aren’t ready to answer.
\n\nLastly we talked about staying realistically positive without being toxic. Kat’s answer is to focus on now vs the huge picture so that life isn’t overwhelming.
\n\nOne of Kat’s motivations is around helping kids, specifically queer and trans kids, feel comfortable and safe in their bodies. They mentor adults about being queer in the workplace and tell us some stories about how they help people live authentically.
\n\nGet Kat's book, This Was All An Accident: Letters and Life Lessons on Amazon
\nKat's blog and personal site: katrinakibben.com
\nLinkedin: katrinakibben
\nTwitter/X: @KatrinaKibben
\nFacebook: katrina.kibben
\nInstagram: @katrinakibben
Welcome to Real Job Talk Robert Gilbreath! Robert talks to us about his career journey as a solopreneur, entrepreneur, and an employee and how he treats each role like he’s the owner of the company.
\n\nRobert Gilbreath is an experienced solopreneur and entrepreneur, and joins the show to share his insights on work mindset, ownership of roles, networking, and evaluating side gigs. He has a diverse background that spans SaaS, ecommerce, partnerships, marketplaces, and product, with experience on both sides of the table across all those areas.
\n\nTune in as he delves into the importance of networking, being positive, and helping others. Robert shares his approach to evaluating new opportunities and emphasises finding purpose in what he does. We also touc
\n\n“Act as if….” every company you work at is your own. Is a mantra (one of many) Robert Gilbreath brings into each role he has. It helps to guide him in making each organization better in some way from before he was there.
\n\nMarketing is an interesting discipline because people throughout the company will have opinions on the work you are doing. The best marketers can switch industries- the academic side and the creative side and it’s about understanding your audience and how to connect with them.
\n\nSuccess is often tied to taking ownership - of your role, your career, and your journey. That means saying “yes” in early career, trying new things, and owning both success and learning.
\n\nWe talked with Robert about side gigs and his approach to networking as a way to make sure he always has something interesting going on. Robert’s goal is to know everyone in Austin doing ecommerce so that he is always touching what’s happening in his space.
\n\nConnect with Robert Gibreath
\nTwitter/X: @robertgatx
\nWebsite: robertgilbreath.com
\nLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertgilbreath/
Welcome to Kelli Thompson! Kelli is a speaker, coach, author, and HR executive who left the corporate world to pursue her passion for helping women advance their careers. She is driven to help more women make it to the board room, advance their careers, and bring their best, most authentic selves to the office. Today we’re going to be focusing on talking with Kelli about the very important topic of salary negotiation.
\n\nKelli’s career started in banking, where in her journey in HR and leadership development she noticed that most of leadership were men. She found joy as an HR executive in helping people figure out paths to develop their careers. She then worked for a tech company where once again she found joy in helping with career development. She liked that so much so that she worked for a consultant who specialized in career development and broke out on her own to do one-on-one leadership coaching -- which also included less travel.
\n\nWe asked Kelli her thoughts on Lean In and how she feels about women’s journey into the boardroom. Kelli agreed with us that the “do it all” idea can burn women out -- especially since women tend to take on more unpaid and unpromotable administrative work at work and take on more at home. We all agreed that being an executive of any gender requires a ton of support at home and in life so that you can dump what’s not necessary, doesn’t give joy, and you need to delegate and create boundaries.
\n\nIn order to grow in the executive ranks, Kelli asks us how can we show up and do what we want to do without feeling resentful.
\n\nWe ask Kelli how she coaches a burned out person who wants to get ahead. She said they usually are ahead -- but that it’s not sustainable. She first asks where in their life they feel most resentful. They eliminate just that and focus on what needs to be addressed so they can focus.
\n\nWe ask about when salary should be discussed in the job search -- up front as early as possible. And salary transparency helps! The issue with salary transparency in the remote first world is that the range is inclusive of all areas, which means that the range can include the salary in Omaha and NYC, which won't be the same. What that does is encourage transparency in the conversation, but also, Kelli says to look up jobs listed locally to know what your range is. And if the range is less than you want, there’s no harm in having an initial conversation and seeing if there is any flexibility. That said, if the job is being upleveled, you want to know where that “lower level” work will go -- it may still sit with you.
\n\nTo get the most out of salary negotiation, you want to talk about what you bring to the company (not your personal needs), the skills you bring, and what the company can get from your skills (increase revenue, lower expense, reduce risk, lead change) in order to demonstrate what you’re asking for. And if the range is more than you were expecting, keep that poker face! Just say, “sounds good” and remember, that initial number is still negotiable. Get what you’re worth!
\n\nWhat’s negotiable in a job offer? Probably not the benefits plan, but sometimes you can adjust the boundaries of hybrid/remote situations and often learning and development opportunities. By understanding the benefits packages you’ll know what you can/can’t negotiate.
\n\nUsually that first offer isn’t the ceiling. You can try for more. The worst thing they can say is no.
\n\nGood people get hired, promoted, and raises even in a bad economy. Good people also get let go. Show your value and make sure your skills are what your company and other companies need.
\n\nThe best negotiators, even in a down economy, acknowledge the environment and showed what they can bring. The best negotiators are kind, direct, and show their value. Also, don’t forget that we learn a lot about you during the negotiation process, but also you learn a lot about the company by how they behave during the offer process.
\n\nWhat does confidence look like in salary negotiations? It looks like trusting yourself.
","summary":"","date_published":"2023-06-16T07:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/2e09eca4-b664-4896-b672-c5a4abaa58a5.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":27707514,"duration_in_seconds":2308}]},{"id":"5d64ec98-0581-40c6-88ab-542606121117","title":"Episode 89: Feedback Conversations at Work","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/89-feedback-conversations-at-work","content_text":"Today we're talking about giving feedback at work.\n\nIn talking with managers at work, Liz encouraged people to ask their people how they wanted to get feedback and how to deliver news positive and negative.\n\nFeedback, when given in a timely and kind manner, can be a gift. But often we forget key steps like finding out how someone likes to receive feedback or framing it in a way that makes sure your point is conveyed.\n\nFeedback tip #1 is to make it as timely as possible. When you finish something, talk about what went well and what could do better. When you’re in a team reflect as a team and as a manager give feedback fairly and in a timely manner so the person can learn in the moment.\n\nWith performance reviews, if a manager doesn’t ask how you’d like to receive your review, for you to ask to see it up front (if that’s your preference). Ask for what you want/need in order to have the feedback discussion be as helpful as possible. Most managers will say yes, but if they don’t, you can say that you may not be as responsive or talkative because you need time to digest feedback to have the most impactful conversation.\n\nHow do you respond to a review that is a surprise? Ask for some time to digest and ask for a follow up meeting. Then take a minute to reflect and write down your responses. You can write an emotional response as long as you throw it away and write a fact-based response. You don’t want to come across as emotional or reactive.\n\nSometimes, if you believe a review is wrong or unfair, you need to consider the source and how much you respect their opinion on your performance. You thank them, respect their opinion, but then share your viewpoint and facts that back it up. Make your point with facts and evidence- be factual but not accusatory. The goal is to get closer aligned and share perception and meet in the middle.\n\nWhat if your manager refuses to talk about your review? The answer is “ok, I was hoping we could talk about it.” and then you need to make a career decision….When you realize there won’t be a conversation, you get out of the conversation as quickly and calmly as possible. You can give the rebuttal to your HR person to make sure your viewpoint is filed.\n\nWhat about less formal feedback? We talk about a friend whose boss unknowingly gave them really insulting feedback in front of peers. Our friend was LIVID and wanted to know what to do. We advised them to use the “When EVENT A happened I thought B and felt C” and to talk it though in the next 1:1. To then say that you know that’s not what they meant to do, and ask for them to give constructive feedback privately.\n\nTell people how you want to communicate in real time. If you like Slack, say so. Same w email. Saying something like “I’m most organized in email, so please communicate with me there” doesn’t put them on guard but helps them know how to work with you. Ask people their preferences and honor them and that will help you build relationships.\n\nYour goal is to build real, authentic, kind working relationships and our communication style is on us to communicate.","content_html":"Today we're talking about giving feedback at work.
\n\nIn talking with managers at work, Liz encouraged people to ask their people how they wanted to get feedback and how to deliver news positive and negative.
\n\nFeedback, when given in a timely and kind manner, can be a gift. But often we forget key steps like finding out how someone likes to receive feedback or framing it in a way that makes sure your point is conveyed.
\n\nFeedback tip #1 is to make it as timely as possible. When you finish something, talk about what went well and what could do better. When you’re in a team reflect as a team and as a manager give feedback fairly and in a timely manner so the person can learn in the moment.
\n\nWith performance reviews, if a manager doesn’t ask how you’d like to receive your review, for you to ask to see it up front (if that’s your preference). Ask for what you want/need in order to have the feedback discussion be as helpful as possible. Most managers will say yes, but if they don’t, you can say that you may not be as responsive or talkative because you need time to digest feedback to have the most impactful conversation.
\n\nHow do you respond to a review that is a surprise? Ask for some time to digest and ask for a follow up meeting. Then take a minute to reflect and write down your responses. You can write an emotional response as long as you throw it away and write a fact-based response. You don’t want to come across as emotional or reactive.
\n\nSometimes, if you believe a review is wrong or unfair, you need to consider the source and how much you respect their opinion on your performance. You thank them, respect their opinion, but then share your viewpoint and facts that back it up. Make your point with facts and evidence- be factual but not accusatory. The goal is to get closer aligned and share perception and meet in the middle.
\n\nWhat if your manager refuses to talk about your review? The answer is “ok, I was hoping we could talk about it.” and then you need to make a career decision….When you realize there won’t be a conversation, you get out of the conversation as quickly and calmly as possible. You can give the rebuttal to your HR person to make sure your viewpoint is filed.
\n\nWhat about less formal feedback? We talk about a friend whose boss unknowingly gave them really insulting feedback in front of peers. Our friend was LIVID and wanted to know what to do. We advised them to use the “When EVENT A happened I thought B and felt C” and to talk it though in the next 1:1. To then say that you know that’s not what they meant to do, and ask for them to give constructive feedback privately.
\n\nTell people how you want to communicate in real time. If you like Slack, say so. Same w email. Saying something like “I’m most organized in email, so please communicate with me there” doesn’t put them on guard but helps them know how to work with you. Ask people their preferences and honor them and that will help you build relationships.
\n\nYour goal is to build real, authentic, kind working relationships and our communication style is on us to communicate.
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk about feedback at work: giving feedback and receiving feedback, and what makes for helpful vs unhelpful feedback.","date_published":"2023-05-03T18:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/5d64ec98-0581-40c6-88ab-542606121117.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":21551743,"duration_in_seconds":1795}]},{"id":"88246170-5191-4b0b-8579-31c31b00641b","title":"Episode 88: Layoffs and Severance -- What Should You Know?","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/88-layoffs-and-severance-what-should-you-know","content_text":"We talk about a topic that has come up extensively over the last few months -- severance packages. What are they? What aren't they? Why do they exist? What do you do when you get them? Our goal is to answer all of the questions we get around them to help you learn and be prepared if you’re faced with them.\n\nQuestion 1: What is a severance package and what is the point of them especially if I’m an at will employee?\n\n\n\"At Will\" means that you don’t belong to the company.\nWhy do companies give severance? To absolve blame and because it’s the right thing to do to get the person to their next job since looking may be unexpected.\nIt is an agreement to keep quiet about fault, i.e., it’s money to say that this was a no-fault situation.\nIt can have a combination of compensation and benefits, talks about your last day, and what needs to be done to earn it (like return your stuff or finish a project).\nNote that there is a timeline around signing it (45 days for over 40 if more than 1 person, different rules if WARN is enacted). Take your time to understand your package.\nPlease know that people delivering the news are having a horrible day too.\n\n\nQuestion 2: Can I negotiate a severance package?\n\n\nNot really, unless you have very clear evidence that the company has done something wrong by you.\nIt is usually determined by a formula.\nOne exception is if you have a pending legal action or a documented legal case, or if you are an executive who has negotiated a separation ahead of time.\nPotentially yes, for sales commissions that close by a certain date.\nDon’t compare yours with the ones from other companies -- they’re all different and have different terms of their packages.\n\n\nQuestion 3: What can I expect once I hear I’m part of a RIF (Reduction in Force)?\n\n\nWhat the package is -- what it includes and what it doesn’t.\nGet a lot of paperwork (15-50 pages+) with all of the terms of the agreements.\nLast day and when and how to return your stuff.\nExpectations around what it takes to get severance and when you have to sign (don’t wait until the last day- it’s just annoying).\nCOBRA information, which helps you stay on your benefit plan for 18 months after you leave the company.\n\n\nQuestion 4: Should I sue/get a lawyer?\n\n\nNot unless you have documentation that proves you’ve been harassed, etc.\nHave someone to review the paperwork.\nKnow that a lawyer put your package together so it’s probably pretty sound.\n\n\nQuestion 5: Thoughts on posting my RIF on Linkedin/social media?\n\n\nYou do you\nBeing supportive to those affected is lovely, but you’re not RIFed, send direct messages and be supportive of people, but ndon't do a “I’m sad my colleagues are gone” posts. Share their profile, write a recommendation, and make the help about them, not you.\nGreen circle on LinkedIn -- yes or no? YES! It makes you more searchable!\nSay what you want and leave your feelings to your inner circle. On Linkedin and social be positive and looking towards the future.\nPersonal reach outs are better than big dramatic posts\nWhen you share desperation, people feel badly and helpless. Keeping it professional in professional groups and on Linkedin will help people know if and how they can help find the next job, but saying that if you don’t get a job soon you won’t be able to pay your mortgage makes people feel guilty and doesn’t work in your favor in professional circles.\n\n\nTo wrap it up, being a part of a RIF is hard, scary, and heavy on the heart. To be prepared, listen to our Looking for a Job Learning Track episodes found on the resources page of our website. We recommend always having a current resume and Linkedin, and keeping your skills up-to-date in case you find yourself in an unexpected job search. ","content_html":"We talk about a topic that has come up extensively over the last few months -- severance packages. What are they? What aren't they? Why do they exist? What do you do when you get them? Our goal is to answer all of the questions we get around them to help you learn and be prepared if you’re faced with them.
\n\nTo wrap it up, being a part of a RIF is hard, scary, and heavy on the heart. To be prepared, listen to our Looking for a Job Learning Track episodes found on the resources page of our website. We recommend always having a current resume and Linkedin, and keeping your skills up-to-date in case you find yourself in an unexpected job search.
","summary":"We talk about a topic that has come up extensively over the last few months -- severance packages. What are they? What aren't they? Why do they exist? What do you do when you get them? Our goal is to answer all of the questions we get around them to help you learn and be prepared if you’re faced with them.","date_published":"2023-02-27T08:15:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/88246170-5191-4b0b-8579-31c31b00641b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":19114412,"duration_in_seconds":1592}]},{"id":"5490bfa3-c6ed-4371-80b2-d50539b07ff9","title":"Episode 87: Change in Careers with Mpume Ncube-Daka","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/87-change-in-careers-with-mpume-ncube-daka","content_text":"Liz and Kat Zoom in with Mpume Ncube-Daka all the way from South Africa to talk about change conversations. Mpume works with people to drive the best decisions in their growth and development. She is passionate about personal and professional development and learning through change.\n\nMpume thought she’d be a doctor when she grew up, but realized she needed to change direction after a failed math class. She then became an accountant and has built a career on change.\n\nAfter laughing at humanities students in college, Mpume finds herself a student of people and passionate about psychology and human development. With careers in marketing, business strategy, accounting, and finance, she can see all sides of business problems and be able to connect with her clients.\n\nWe ask Mpume about navigating workplace relationships - what advice does she give for navigating the modern workplace? She reminds us to take time to relate to people as human. Take out the noise and get to know someone as a human.\n\nNavigating a workplace culture is about navigating that company’s particular cultural nuances first. Once you understand that, you bring your authentic self into the space. First you want to observe how feedback is given and received- preferably at the interview- and see if it’s a place you want to work.\n\nWe ask about navigating a full career change vs a just job change. The #1 thing is self-awareness. If you know yourself, you know what excites you, what you don’t want, and you want to do things that excite you and make you money. What skills and strengths do you have that are marketable? You may love to color, but it may not pay the mortgage.\n\nYou don’t want to get all of the meaning of your life from work. We work to have the life that we want- all happiness can’t come from the workforce.\n\nCommunicating effectively is a key skill to thrive in today’s work world. Mpume has ABCs of work communication. For her, #1 is interpersonal communication, which includes both verbal and non-verbal communication. We all want to be heard, no matter if someone agrees or not. If we feel heard and listened to we can work together. Be good at listening and giving the time to hear someone’s opinions. And it’s important to clarify that you heard the thing they were actually saying.\n\nThey key to effective listening? Be present. Not checking email. Not checking Slack. Not prepping dinner. Clarify what they are saying to make sure you understand.\n\nWe ask how do we stay present in today’s crazy world? Don’t make it about you. When it’s about understanding what the other person is saying, you can focus on their message. It comes to company culture- if everyone expects instant communication and people are Slacking during meetings, you’re not encouraging listening and being present.\n\nWe ask for advice on behalf of our listeners who feel stuck in their career. Mpume wants you to look at what “stuck” looks like for you. Why do you feel stuck? Get to the bottom of why you’re feeling that way before you start to solve the problem. If you’re stuck, how do you getting out of the hole? Create goals to challenge yourself to get out of that space.\n\nDoes being stuck feel different for women? Yes! Sometimes we need to make choices that work for us and what we want in our lives. That said, many women want to be super women and not drop anything, and we come at our situation from a guilt perspective. When we realize what we need and want and stop feeling guilty about what we aren’t doing, we find our power and our gratitude.","content_html":"Liz and Kat Zoom in with Mpume Ncube-Daka all the way from South Africa to talk about change conversations. Mpume works with people to drive the best decisions in their growth and development. She is passionate about personal and professional development and learning through change.
\n\nMpume thought she’d be a doctor when she grew up, but realized she needed to change direction after a failed math class. She then became an accountant and has built a career on change.
\n\nAfter laughing at humanities students in college, Mpume finds herself a student of people and passionate about psychology and human development. With careers in marketing, business strategy, accounting, and finance, she can see all sides of business problems and be able to connect with her clients.
\n\nWe ask Mpume about navigating workplace relationships - what advice does she give for navigating the modern workplace? She reminds us to take time to relate to people as human. Take out the noise and get to know someone as a human.
\n\nNavigating a workplace culture is about navigating that company’s particular cultural nuances first. Once you understand that, you bring your authentic self into the space. First you want to observe how feedback is given and received- preferably at the interview- and see if it’s a place you want to work.
\n\nWe ask about navigating a full career change vs a just job change. The #1 thing is self-awareness. If you know yourself, you know what excites you, what you don’t want, and you want to do things that excite you and make you money. What skills and strengths do you have that are marketable? You may love to color, but it may not pay the mortgage.
\n\nYou don’t want to get all of the meaning of your life from work. We work to have the life that we want- all happiness can’t come from the workforce.
\n\nCommunicating effectively is a key skill to thrive in today’s work world. Mpume has ABCs of work communication. For her, #1 is interpersonal communication, which includes both verbal and non-verbal communication. We all want to be heard, no matter if someone agrees or not. If we feel heard and listened to we can work together. Be good at listening and giving the time to hear someone’s opinions. And it’s important to clarify that you heard the thing they were actually saying.
\n\nThey key to effective listening? Be present. Not checking email. Not checking Slack. Not prepping dinner. Clarify what they are saying to make sure you understand.
\n\nWe ask how do we stay present in today’s crazy world? Don’t make it about you. When it’s about understanding what the other person is saying, you can focus on their message. It comes to company culture- if everyone expects instant communication and people are Slacking during meetings, you’re not encouraging listening and being present.
\n\nWe ask for advice on behalf of our listeners who feel stuck in their career. Mpume wants you to look at what “stuck” looks like for you. Why do you feel stuck? Get to the bottom of why you’re feeling that way before you start to solve the problem. If you’re stuck, how do you getting out of the hole? Create goals to challenge yourself to get out of that space.
\n\nDoes being stuck feel different for women? Yes! Sometimes we need to make choices that work for us and what we want in our lives. That said, many women want to be super women and not drop anything, and we come at our situation from a guilt perspective. When we realize what we need and want and stop feeling guilty about what we aren’t doing, we find our power and our gratitude.
","summary":"Liz and Kat Zoom in with Mpume Ncube-Daka all the way from South Africa to talk about change conversations. Mpume works with people to drive the best decisions in their growth and development. She is passionate about personal and professional development and learning through change.","date_published":"2023-01-13T06:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/5490bfa3-c6ed-4371-80b2-d50539b07ff9.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":28687204,"duration_in_seconds":2390}]},{"id":"e23c99b7-8709-496f-85c5-83bfe118bd78","title":"Episode 86: How to avoid job abandonment","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/86-how-to-avoid-job-abandonment","content_text":"Today we’re talking about job abandonment -- something we’ve each seen a handful of times in our corporate careers. (Kat saw it more with people working in retail.)\n\nWe want you to know what job abandonment is, how to avoid it, and what the ripple effect can be when someone abandons their job.\n\nWhat is job abandonment? Job abandonment is when you just disappear from work and nobody knows where you are for a certain period of time, even just a few days. It often leads to you losing your job.\n\nWhen someone doesn’t show up without any notice, management and HR starts asking around. Then they call, email, text, Slack, and try to get in touch with someone any way they can. HR gets involved when they resort to using personal and emergency contact info to get in touch.\n\nIt’s a tough balance in trying to find the person and see that they are ok -- but you don’t want to set off too many alarm bells, just in case the whole thing was caused by a dead phone battery and an alarm not going off.\n\nAt a point when the job abandonment is suspected, the authorities may be called to do a wellness check, hospitals may be called to see if someone’s there, and if someone knows the person’s kid’s school, the school may be called to see if the family is ok. Before letting someone go for job abandonment, management and HR will try to find them and make sure they are ok.\n\nKat knew someone who just couldn’t deal with life and disconnected with their work. After trying to find them, the president of the company showed up at their house.\n\nJob abandonments are very stressful for managers and HR people, even when the person turns up OK.The worry that happens when someone disappears is very real, and companies want to avoid invoking their job abandonment policy. \n\nAs the person who is managing your career, you do not want to be source of that stress and you want to be seen as responsible and reliable. If your company or manager doesn’t know that they can rely on you, your career in that role will be short-lived. And when you go to find your next job, it may be difficult to explain what happened if you simply burned your bridges and left.\n\nTo avoid this, we have some tips to avoid noncommunication and miscomunication with your workplace when you really just can't come in.\n\n\nSomeone you know will be aware if something is happening to you. Make sure they also have your manager’s contact info.\nYou don’t have to tell work everything about your personal life, just what you need to communicate what to expect. For example, \" need to go on medical leave\" or \"I need to take a week of personal leave.\" That's enough.\nCrazy concept: your company doesn’t pay you to not show up. BUT this has happened to other people before you, and because of that, the company likely has policies in place to support you if you can’t work. And your country may also have labor laws that cover this as well. You need to communicate enough to make sure that your job is protected. \nDon’t be the person who causes angst for others, and don’t have your decisions cause angst and disruption for your team or for coworkers depending on you. If you need time off, ask for it and take it. \nWhen people disappear from their job, projects get derailed, trust gets broken, the rumor mill goes nuts, and colleagues get overloaded. Don’t be the person who made this happen. Communicate, don't just ghost. \n","content_html":"Today we’re talking about job abandonment -- something we’ve each seen a handful of times in our corporate careers. (Kat saw it more with people working in retail.)
\n\nWe want you to know what job abandonment is, how to avoid it, and what the ripple effect can be when someone abandons their job.
\n\nWhat is job abandonment? Job abandonment is when you just disappear from work and nobody knows where you are for a certain period of time, even just a few days. It often leads to you losing your job.
\n\nWhen someone doesn’t show up without any notice, management and HR starts asking around. Then they call, email, text, Slack, and try to get in touch with someone any way they can. HR gets involved when they resort to using personal and emergency contact info to get in touch.
\n\nIt’s a tough balance in trying to find the person and see that they are ok -- but you don’t want to set off too many alarm bells, just in case the whole thing was caused by a dead phone battery and an alarm not going off.
\n\nAt a point when the job abandonment is suspected, the authorities may be called to do a wellness check, hospitals may be called to see if someone’s there, and if someone knows the person’s kid’s school, the school may be called to see if the family is ok. Before letting someone go for job abandonment, management and HR will try to find them and make sure they are ok.
\n\nKat knew someone who just couldn’t deal with life and disconnected with their work. After trying to find them, the president of the company showed up at their house.
\n\nJob abandonments are very stressful for managers and HR people, even when the person turns up OK.The worry that happens when someone disappears is very real, and companies want to avoid invoking their job abandonment policy.
\n\nAs the person who is managing your career, you do not want to be source of that stress and you want to be seen as responsible and reliable. If your company or manager doesn’t know that they can rely on you, your career in that role will be short-lived. And when you go to find your next job, it may be difficult to explain what happened if you simply burned your bridges and left.
\n\nTo avoid this, we have some tips to avoid noncommunication and miscomunication with your workplace when you really just can't come in.
\n\nWelcome to Real Job Talk, Angela Loeb! We refer our clients who need their resumes done to Angela because she literally wrote the book(s) on resumes and job searching. Angela started out helping people to get into beauty school- she interviewed people and helped them get into classes. Angela got into recruiting by answering an online ad (a rarity!) and worked at an agency for many years until the 2009 recession. She wrote a book, conducted seminars, and hosted a radio show on “blog talk radio” on the job search process.
\n\nWe asked Angela about going out on her own vs working for agencies. Angela had a mentor who encouraged her to work from home and branch out beyond their agency. She started her business as a side gig (we highly recommend doing this first!) working with individuals until she realized that she could support herself with her own business.
\n\nAngela helps people to brand themselves, write their resumes, and be able to tell their stories. You are marketing you, and you need to figure out your value proposition/branding statement. As a job seeker, you have to position yourself like a product.
\n\nSo how do you show resume readers what you can do for them? You think about what you mainly want _to do, and then highlight it with the rest of _what you can do sprinkled around the side. You want resume readers to see you how you want to be featured. If you start with your resume, it’s just an inventory of skills. If you lead with what you WANT to do, you tailor your resume to the job you want.
\n\nIf you assume everyone’s going to want to hire you, you’re not thinking about your target audience. Resume readers want skills, not adjectives.
\n\nA lot of people come to coaches and resume writers to help them get clarity about how they can have impact.
\n\nWe asked Angela about the use of social media and how to be consistent in branding across different media so that your overall picture between your resume and social media is clear.
\n\nAngela also says not to copy your job description on a resume, but agrees that you need to show that your experience matches the experience they are looking for. And, while many job descriptions talk about intangibles like “team player,” to say that you're a team player is white noise on your resume. You need to SHOW that you’re a team player, results driven or detail oriented in your accomplishments vs by listing those qualities.
\n\nFront end work to get your strengths and goals clear is critical in a successful job search.
\n\nIs the Great Resignation over? What’s the job market like today? Angela points out job cycles, and recommends that hard times cause companies to need different skills. We may end up in a limited hiring bubble, but right now companies are still screaming for talent. You may want to move to a role that feels stable for you.
\n\nIt comes down to knowing what you do that creates value and impact and can highlight it, you’re going to be more successful in your job search because you can pivot, modify, and adapt.
\n\nIf you have a skills gap, you need to fill it. Show companies you want to work for that you understand their business. You can get those gaps filled by volunteering, and also can expand your network that way too!
\n\nBeing a connector and getting to know other people can absolutely help you get your next job. Commenting on what you’re interested in and posting about it helps you become a thought leader in that space.
\n\nLastly, we asked Angela about video interviews and resumes. We’re seeing employers using more asynchronous video interviews. It’s convenient for the hiring managers and companies. Videos allow you to show people who you are, but it’s important to stand out and have an edge. Remember, you can’t have a video resume be too long or you’ll lose your audience. On video, you need to be “on”, engaging, and interesting. Watch examples of video resumes on sites like Bitable and use templates to get your message out there.
\n\nAngela on Twitter: @angelarloeb
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk about telling your story in a resume and conveying your personal brand and positioning with expert Angela Loeb.","date_published":"2022-10-04T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/d33004f4-fab1-4fe8-8f41-d2f940ba3702.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":35040478,"duration_in_seconds":2920}]},{"id":"b91b8e41-4755-4a07-b5f0-0167f169e786","title":"Episode 84: Your company was acquired! Now what? ","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/84-your-company-was-acquired-now-what","content_text":"In this episode we advise on what to do when your company gets acquired. Most of us don’t know if our company is going to change structure, ownership, or leadership, so when something big is announced it can be a bit shocking and can cause us to ask, “What happens to me?”\n\nWhat do you do that day? Acknowledge your feelings - you’re going to get flooded with emotion. It’s scary. The number 1 thing you can do is take care of yourself. Continue to breathe. Take a walk. Understand that the feelings of uncertainty are normal and expected, but don’t pretend they aren’t there.\n\nThat said, if you’re a manager or a leader, you need to take a deep breath and lead your people. You can tell them how you feel, but also exude confidence. Don’t make promises you can’t keep. Be as honest and forthright as you can. Admit what you don’t know. And save your meltdown for time away from your team.\n\nAs an individual contributor, attend all meetings the company has for you, but make sure you keep getting your job done. Remember that being adaptable is the #1 skill that help people have successful careers. Being reliable is always helpful in staying a necessary resource. As an individual contributor you can control your adaptability, your attitude, your willingness to help, and your performance. Being the person who asks how you can help with the transition will make you invaluable.\n\nAfter day 1, learn about any upsides or golden handcuffs that come along with the deal. Are there bonuses for staying? Does anything happen to your pay? Your benefits? Your equity? Who at the new company does the same thing as you? Knowing your situation helps you assess where you can fit in the new org.\n\nThat said, it’s a great time to brush up your resume and start exploring opportunities. Look for ways to help ease the transition in time of change. Post-acquisition layoffs happen. Be ready.\n\nAssess the culture of the new place. How did they announce it? What was the welcome like? How happy do the new people seem? Judge the new place against your must-have list. Be aware. Ask questions. Be a calm force looking at things objectively to best assess the situation.\n\nLook at how you’re welcomed- you learn a lot about a company when you see how they handle an acquisition. Is it employee first? Are you left in the dark? Are they focused on assuaging your fears? How is your manager handling it?\n\nAre there skill gaps between your old and new responsibilities? Try and fill them whenever possible if you want to stay and make yourself a stronger candidate for an internal or external search. Do whatever you need to do to be a great candidate for any job search.\n\nFigure out what this means to you, talk to your Board of Advisors for advice, and give it a chance to see if it can be a good change.","content_html":"In this episode we advise on what to do when your company gets acquired. Most of us don’t know if our company is going to change structure, ownership, or leadership, so when something big is announced it can be a bit shocking and can cause us to ask, “What happens to me?”
\n\nWhat do you do that day? Acknowledge your feelings - you’re going to get flooded with emotion. It’s scary. The number 1 thing you can do is take care of yourself. Continue to breathe. Take a walk. Understand that the feelings of uncertainty are normal and expected, but don’t pretend they aren’t there.
\n\nThat said, if you’re a manager or a leader, you need to take a deep breath and lead your people. You can tell them how you feel, but also exude confidence. Don’t make promises you can’t keep. Be as honest and forthright as you can. Admit what you don’t know. And save your meltdown for time away from your team.
\n\nAs an individual contributor, attend all meetings the company has for you, but make sure you keep getting your job done. Remember that being adaptable is the #1 skill that help people have successful careers. Being reliable is always helpful in staying a necessary resource. As an individual contributor you can control your adaptability, your attitude, your willingness to help, and your performance. Being the person who asks how you can help with the transition will make you invaluable.
\n\nAfter day 1, learn about any upsides or golden handcuffs that come along with the deal. Are there bonuses for staying? Does anything happen to your pay? Your benefits? Your equity? Who at the new company does the same thing as you? Knowing your situation helps you assess where you can fit in the new org.
\n\nThat said, it’s a great time to brush up your resume and start exploring opportunities. Look for ways to help ease the transition in time of change. Post-acquisition layoffs happen. Be ready.
\n\nAssess the culture of the new place. How did they announce it? What was the welcome like? How happy do the new people seem? Judge the new place against your must-have list. Be aware. Ask questions. Be a calm force looking at things objectively to best assess the situation.
\n\nLook at how you’re welcomed- you learn a lot about a company when you see how they handle an acquisition. Is it employee first? Are you left in the dark? Are they focused on assuaging your fears? How is your manager handling it?
\n\nAre there skill gaps between your old and new responsibilities? Try and fill them whenever possible if you want to stay and make yourself a stronger candidate for an internal or external search. Do whatever you need to do to be a great candidate for any job search.
\n\nFigure out what this means to you, talk to your Board of Advisors for advice, and give it a chance to see if it can be a good change.
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk about what to do (and not do!) if the company you work for gets acquired.","date_published":"2022-08-30T07:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/b91b8e41-4755-4a07-b5f0-0167f169e786.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":15756678,"duration_in_seconds":1125}]},{"id":"2b587d95-fa73-4dca-a9df-8751bedfab54","title":"Episode 83: Top Secret! Taking about NDAs","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/83-top-secret-talking-about-ndas","content_text":"Top secret! We’re talking about NDAs, non-disclosure agreements. What’s an NDA? It’s an agreement between you and the company saying that you won’t share information about the company outside of the company. These are shared whether you’re an employee or a contractor.\n\nSometimes you sign an NDA when you’re interviewing, which means that whatever you learn during the process you can not take back to your current employer. \n\nIf you’re working on a secret project at work, your NDA says that you don’t tell anyone about what you’re working on. At least not the details of it.\n\nSo, what do you do when someone asks what you’re working on?? Kat advises you make a joke like, “I’d tell you, but then I’d have to..”. You can tell people that you can’t wait until it becomes public and you can talk more openly about it.\n\nYou can also say to people, “There’s a lot going on at work, and maybe if you Google it you can figure it out.”\n\nInternal Use Only means do not forward, and if you don’t listen, you could find yourself in legal hot water. Sometimes, when talking about things that are top secret, we have to realize that not everyone has the same amount of knowledge, so fishing to see who knows what could get you into hot water. If you know about something that isn’t public knowledge, you don’t want to be asking about it in case you make people curious and they find out things they should not know about.\n\nOn your first day, make sure to ask for a copy of everything you sign and make sure you take the time to read it. Always know what you’re signing and make sure you can honor it.\n\nWhen you leave a company, it’s ok to ask for your signed documents. You will want to review them for non-solicitation language (and time limits -- for example, you may not be able to refer someone from that company for 12 months without violating your agreement) before you refer someone from there. Be informed to make sure you honor everything you’ve signed.\n\nIf something is Googleable, it’s in the public domain, but if it’s not, it’s probably under NDA and you don’t want to be the leak -- so keep it to yourself!","content_html":"Top secret! We’re talking about NDAs, non-disclosure agreements. What’s an NDA? It’s an agreement between you and the company saying that you won’t share information about the company outside of the company. These are shared whether you’re an employee or a contractor.
\n\nSometimes you sign an NDA when you’re interviewing, which means that whatever you learn during the process you can not take back to your current employer.
\n\nIf you’re working on a secret project at work, your NDA says that you don’t tell anyone about what you’re working on. At least not the details of it.
\n\nSo, what do you do when someone asks what you’re working on?? Kat advises you make a joke like, “I’d tell you, but then I’d have to..”. You can tell people that you can’t wait until it becomes public and you can talk more openly about it.
\n\nYou can also say to people, “There’s a lot going on at work, and maybe if you Google it you can figure it out.”
\n\nInternal Use Only means do not forward, and if you don’t listen, you could find yourself in legal hot water. Sometimes, when talking about things that are top secret, we have to realize that not everyone has the same amount of knowledge, so fishing to see who knows what could get you into hot water. If you know about something that isn’t public knowledge, you don’t want to be asking about it in case you make people curious and they find out things they should not know about.
\n\nOn your first day, make sure to ask for a copy of everything you sign and make sure you take the time to read it. Always know what you’re signing and make sure you can honor it.
\n\nWhen you leave a company, it’s ok to ask for your signed documents. You will want to review them for non-solicitation language (and time limits -- for example, you may not be able to refer someone from that company for 12 months without violating your agreement) before you refer someone from there. Be informed to make sure you honor everything you’ve signed.
\n\nIf something is Googleable, it’s in the public domain, but if it’s not, it’s probably under NDA and you don’t want to be the leak -- so keep it to yourself!
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk about not spilling the beans at work","date_published":"2022-06-28T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/2b587d95-fa73-4dca-a9df-8751bedfab54.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":9214577,"duration_in_seconds":575}]},{"id":"0b53d088-fd4e-4dc4-a2a7-ac05ef33527e","title":"Episode 82: Truth in Background Checks","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/82-truth-in-background-checks","content_text":"Today we’re talking about background checks. Background checks are a standard piece of company’s hiring processes. The company takes the resume and verifies education, employment, and criminal records. Sometimes they also do things like drug tests.\n\nBoth of us have had to rescind offers or eliminate employment based on background investigations, and each of those situations could have been avoided.\n\nThe net net: be honest. It establishes trust.\n\nBackground checks include references. A bad reference check can cause doubt and we’ve seen offers get rescinded because of them. So be aware and make sure all of your references will speak positively about you!\n\nDifferent industries (especially regulated industries like healthcare, financial services, and government) have different requirements including FBI checks and credit checks. Do your research to know what to expect. \n\nFor most companies, they ask if you have any felonies, arrests, or other criminal records. TELL THE TRUTH. Yes, that arrest for drunk and disorderly on Spring Break ‘97 WILL show up on the report. If you’re honest, you should be ok. We’ve only seen issues when there are discrepencies between the application or resume and the check. Make sure you’re always as honest as possible!\n\nFor education checks, if you claim to have a diploma, make sure that the school will confirm that you have the diploma. Taking credits does not equal a degree. Finishing coursework but not taking exams does not equal a degree. Having a financial hold means that there is a hold on your degree and you can not claim it. \n\nWe have seen when someone doesn’t know that there is a financial hold (and they even walked), and we’ve seen companies go both ways when this happens -- they might rescind the offer, or they might let it go and follow-through with the hire. Still, if you aren’t sure, check with the school before claiming the degree.\n\nWe encourage you to keep good records of the dates of your jobs. If you don’t know for sure, say “approx”. Just disclose whatever you can.\n\nWhat about changing your title on your resume to make it more searchable? That's ok -- your resume and Linkedin are marketing tools. BUT, you want to make sure any application states your true title, no matter how goofy it is. There’s a difference between changing the words on your title and lying about your title. We’re begging you to tell the truth.","content_html":"Today we’re talking about background checks. Background checks are a standard piece of company’s hiring processes. The company takes the resume and verifies education, employment, and criminal records. Sometimes they also do things like drug tests.
\n\nBoth of us have had to rescind offers or eliminate employment based on background investigations, and each of those situations could have been avoided.
\n\nThe net net: be honest. It establishes trust.
\n\nBackground checks include references. A bad reference check can cause doubt and we’ve seen offers get rescinded because of them. So be aware and make sure all of your references will speak positively about you!
\n\nDifferent industries (especially regulated industries like healthcare, financial services, and government) have different requirements including FBI checks and credit checks. Do your research to know what to expect.
\n\nFor most companies, they ask if you have any felonies, arrests, or other criminal records. TELL THE TRUTH. Yes, that arrest for drunk and disorderly on Spring Break ‘97 WILL show up on the report. If you’re honest, you should be ok. We’ve only seen issues when there are discrepencies between the application or resume and the check. Make sure you’re always as honest as possible!
\n\nFor education checks, if you claim to have a diploma, make sure that the school will confirm that you have the diploma. Taking credits does not equal a degree. Finishing coursework but not taking exams does not equal a degree. Having a financial hold means that there is a hold on your degree and you can not claim it.
\n\nWe have seen when someone doesn’t know that there is a financial hold (and they even walked), and we’ve seen companies go both ways when this happens -- they might rescind the offer, or they might let it go and follow-through with the hire. Still, if you aren’t sure, check with the school before claiming the degree.
\n\nWe encourage you to keep good records of the dates of your jobs. If you don’t know for sure, say “approx”. Just disclose whatever you can.
\n\nWhat about changing your title on your resume to make it more searchable? That's ok -- your resume and Linkedin are marketing tools. BUT, you want to make sure any application states your true title, no matter how goofy it is. There’s a difference between changing the words on your title and lying about your title. We’re begging you to tell the truth.
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk about background checks in job applications. ","date_published":"2022-05-17T09:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/0b53d088-fd4e-4dc4-a2a7-ac05ef33527e.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":12637816,"duration_in_seconds":1053}]},{"id":"0ceb4eb8-ab5b-43b2-9db2-e09a93e4931c","title":"Episode 81: Managing Gen Z and intergenerational communication with Dr Carrie Root","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/81-managing-gen-z-and-intergenerational-communication-with-dr-carrie-root","content_text":"Welcome to Dr. Carrie Root, who joins us to share her book The Other Soft Skill that teaches about intergenerational communication and connection. Carrie has had a number of career twists and turns, breaking barriers as an IT consultant with the Navy and now as an educational consultant.\n\nCarrie tells us that she ignored the gender differences she found in her early career by pretending there wasn’t one. \n\nWith her work consulting with the Navy on pause, she did some consulting with NASA and thought about everything she’d learned and saw a lack in teamwork from earlier in her career.\n\nCarrie learned about a local Rotary Club program that gave free tuition to kids who kept their grades up and were responsible enough to graduate, and did some research to see that many of them weren’t able to complete their advanced degree programs. She saw the opportunities to get kids from local schools internships, but was hearing that they were too rough.\n\nCarrie also found that when kids come out of school they were used to homogeneous groups, and in the workplace she was seeing communication and style breakdowns.\n\nShe was able to set up partners, buddies, and mentors in order to build relationships across groups and help them learn to understand each other and their style. She realized that by getting to know others, team members were able to see each other as people vs stereotypical generational people.\n\nWe discussed how leaders can set norms for how a team communicates and start the conversation about how to communicate across the team. Carrie also told us about how managers help with adaptability around new technologies and norms. Getting people teaching each other is a key to intergenerational team success.\n\nCarrie reminds us all to learn from each other and each other’s perspectives. We have so many opportunities to take time, develop relationships, and listen to each other. Listening is the most under-rated skill in the workplace. If we listened more instead of thinking about what we’re going to say next, we could all connect and serve each other better.\n\nGen Z tends to want to learn and grow, so when managing them, make sure they are always learning, having new experiences, and can learn from each other. You also want to make sure they have the best software and equipment to be as efficient as possible. She makes sure that for Gen Zs they have no penalty for asking questions or trying new things.\n\n“If you learn from something that didn’t go well, that doesn’t mean it was a bad thing.” We talk about learning, growth, and growth mindset and wanting to learn and move forward.\n\nWe ask Carrie where to find mentors. She says that you need to think about what you bring as a mentee and what your responsibilities are as someone being mentored. You need to set expectations, commit time, and work towards your goals. Look for mentors outside of your organization and to help with certain goals.\n\nWhat happens if someone is afraid to ask someone to mentor them? Carrie feels that if you’re afraid to ask, maybe you’re not ready to be mentored, and if you assume they won’t want to, you’re putting words in their mouth. She recommends asking in a way that it’s ok for them to say no or to say “not now”. That way you know if they say yes they want to do it.\n\nCarrie Root & 5G Power Skills on Twitter: @5gpowerskills\nCarrie Root on Linkedin\nCarrie Root & 5G Power Skills on Instagram:@5gpowerskills","content_html":"Welcome to Dr. Carrie Root, who joins us to share her book The Other Soft Skill that teaches about intergenerational communication and connection. Carrie has had a number of career twists and turns, breaking barriers as an IT consultant with the Navy and now as an educational consultant.
\n\nCarrie tells us that she ignored the gender differences she found in her early career by pretending there wasn’t one.
\n\nWith her work consulting with the Navy on pause, she did some consulting with NASA and thought about everything she’d learned and saw a lack in teamwork from earlier in her career.
\n\nCarrie learned about a local Rotary Club program that gave free tuition to kids who kept their grades up and were responsible enough to graduate, and did some research to see that many of them weren’t able to complete their advanced degree programs. She saw the opportunities to get kids from local schools internships, but was hearing that they were too rough.
\n\nCarrie also found that when kids come out of school they were used to homogeneous groups, and in the workplace she was seeing communication and style breakdowns.
\n\nShe was able to set up partners, buddies, and mentors in order to build relationships across groups and help them learn to understand each other and their style. She realized that by getting to know others, team members were able to see each other as people vs stereotypical generational people.
\n\nWe discussed how leaders can set norms for how a team communicates and start the conversation about how to communicate across the team. Carrie also told us about how managers help with adaptability around new technologies and norms. Getting people teaching each other is a key to intergenerational team success.
\n\nCarrie reminds us all to learn from each other and each other’s perspectives. We have so many opportunities to take time, develop relationships, and listen to each other. Listening is the most under-rated skill in the workplace. If we listened more instead of thinking about what we’re going to say next, we could all connect and serve each other better.
\n\nGen Z tends to want to learn and grow, so when managing them, make sure they are always learning, having new experiences, and can learn from each other. You also want to make sure they have the best software and equipment to be as efficient as possible. She makes sure that for Gen Zs they have no penalty for asking questions or trying new things.
\n\n“If you learn from something that didn’t go well, that doesn’t mean it was a bad thing.” We talk about learning, growth, and growth mindset and wanting to learn and move forward.
\n\nWe ask Carrie where to find mentors. She says that you need to think about what you bring as a mentee and what your responsibilities are as someone being mentored. You need to set expectations, commit time, and work towards your goals. Look for mentors outside of your organization and to help with certain goals.
\n\nWhat happens if someone is afraid to ask someone to mentor them? Carrie feels that if you’re afraid to ask, maybe you’re not ready to be mentored, and if you assume they won’t want to, you’re putting words in their mouth. She recommends asking in a way that it’s ok for them to say no or to say “not now”. That way you know if they say yes they want to do it.
\n\nCarrie Root & 5G Power Skills on Twitter: @5gpowerskills
\nCarrie Root on Linkedin
\nCarrie Root & 5G Power Skills on Instagram:@5gpowerskills
Welcome to Professional Service Manager and author of the new book Make Me The Boss: Surviving as a Millenial Manager in the Corporate World, Emily Tsitrian! We talked with Emily about being a “newer career” manager, why she wrote her book, and lessons she learned along the way.
\n\nWe asked Emily how she got into professional services (which is a lot of project management, implementation, and customer success), and she told us about how in college she wanted to be in tech, since tech changes the world (for better or worse). She started at an enterprise health solution company, and after 7 years she wanted to join a start-up and ended up at a unicorn where they experienced hypergrowth as the company scaled. Suddenly Emily and her peers were in management.
\n\nWhen a friend asked her what books she recommended about how to be a manager, Emily realized the right book for her didn’t exist, and she decided to write one. She started, put it aside because of….life…. and picked it back up with the pandemic and finished it!
\n\nWe asked Emily how she discovered her voice as a manager. Her first point was that managers are always learning. At first she was overly invested emotionally, made everything a hill to die on, and built the team around her vs building a team who could replace her.
\n\nGrowth can be uncomfortable and vulnerable, and people in management positions are vulnerable because everything is on display. All of a sudden, people around us see when we look at our phone, look into the meaning of what we say, and overthink a lot of our reactions. Being in management comes with “a lot of crap” according to Emily.
\n\nWe discuss being strong and using the word “no” to protect both ourselves and our teams. Drawing boundaries helps us protect ourselves.
\n\nWe ask about the difference between being a millennial manager vs Gen X or Gen Z. Emily explains how millennials have grown in a hyper-connected world, changing societal norms in positive and negative ways and how it affects management. They also have lower life expectancy, accumulated wealth, and live for experiences and happiness. They’ve turned the world of professionalism upside down and shown us that we need to be aware if we want to attract millennial talent. They’ve shown us that if you don’t run your business with morals, employees will walk out.
\n\nMillenials are more likely to want to communicate with a screen. Emily wanted to help people address the whole person.
\n\nWe ask the first piece of advice Emily gives to new managers, and she breaks it into people who are managing their peers vs managing a new group. For the first group, Emily talks about managing at least one person who didn’t get the job.
\n\nShe said to make sure that you keep business continuity -- don’t let balls drop. Then think about both relationships with team members and relationships with new peer group. She also invites people to talk about what it’s like being managed by someone who was their peer. Be ready for the difficult relationships.
\n\nShe advises to step back from close relationships with people on the team; make sure everyone has equal access to you, and focus on being their manager vs their friend.
\n\nAnother tip from Emily is that when you become a manager, don’t lose that thing you can coach people on. If you’ve mastered something as an IC, don’t lose it. Again, it helps with coaching and credibility.
\n\nYour team needs to feel that you’re able to represent them at a meeting, so public speaking is a critical skill to have as a manager. How do you get better (other than reading Emily’s book)? Give a toast, be a podcast guest, watch some TED talks, ask a question in a meeting... there are a lot of good ways.
\n\nWe ask about evaluating potential new managers if you’re making a job change, and Emily has some great tips. 1. Does the company invest in their management teams? Ask how well managers are supported. 2. Insist that you talk with the person who will be your direct manager. 3. Ask that person hard questions (which is happening more and more) about how they manage, give feedback, and think about growth.
\n\nMillenials get more and more community from work which makes people invest more in their workplace than ever before.
\n\nWe ask about how to retain millennials in this tough hiring environment. Emily is intentional on focusing on the high performers vs the people who are struggling. This goes against relation-driven millennial instincts to nurture, but making sure you can focus on building your best people so that you don’t lose them. She also tells companies to invest in their new managers and to start training potential managers and help them go up a half a notch.
\n\nGood managers are building their next generation.
\n\nWe ask about a manager’s biggest challenge for 2022. Emily acknowledges the huge foundational shift in the workplace, and tells people to stay curious, invest in knowledge and be authentic without being married to past ideas.
\n\nLiz adds the need to be flexible and caring….while staying relevant, curious, and open. We’re in a big inflection point -- let’s embrace it!
","summary":"","date_published":"2022-02-22T06:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/8c01848a-e80d-4b07-9c43-4d600091e03e.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":32947447,"duration_in_seconds":2745}]},{"id":"a4b801bc-2289-43d4-94e2-d44761208338","title":"Episode 79: Be Prepared for Networking!","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/79-be-prepared-for-networking","content_text":"In this episode we’re taking a lesson from something that happened to Liz and using it to help people be prepared for networking meetings, especially when networking with executives.\n\nLiz posted on Linkedin about how her company is hiring, why it's great to work there, and told people to sign up for time with her if they were interested. Well, her calendar was FILLED….mostly with job seekers looking for pretty significant career changes.\n\nWhen people met with Liz, a lot of them didn’t know how to maximize their time with her. We decided to put together a list of ways for people to use the opportunity to network with someone who can influence your career.\n\nFirst, help the person you are talking with prepare. Make sure they have your resume or Linkedin profile and that they know the nature of the conversation. If you’re talking with them about a job or even about a specific role or team, let them know beforehand. Assume this person is busy, so help them prepare for the meeting by giving them any relevant information. Don’t waste face time giving the high level overview of who you are and what you want from the meeting - get that out of the way over email first. You can go deeper in the meeting if both of you arrive prepared.\n\nNext, be prepared yourself. Research them a bit. Research their company, the latest news, what they do. Don’t waste time asking questions that can be found easily on the web. You’re networking - be prepared to impress by doing the research up front. This will also help you maximize your time together by not wasting time with Captain Obvious questions.\n\nThird, if you’re getting to know them without a predetermined agenda, have your elevator pitch ready and be ready to say what you want from the meeting. You’re taking their time, make sure you get what you want out of it. Be concise and ready to clearly share your background and what you’re looking to get from this meeting. \n\nFourth, let them run the meeting and ask the questions. Saying hi and then verbal vomiting without stopping to let them get a word in edgewise is not the way to go here. Since you’ve prepared them by sending over your reason for being on their calendar and your profile, let them take the reins. They may see something in you and start inquiring for reasons you don’t know. Let them. Extra advice around letting a woman leader run the meeting if you are a man, because women have radars out for men who run over them in meetings….don’t let that be a point against you.\n\nLastly, be mindful of the time. Most managers and executives have packed days filled with meetings. That means: be on time and don’t go over. AND DON'T GHOST! Ghosting -- not showing up for the call without any communication or warning -- really interrupts the day and builds resentment, especially with busy people. If you can’t make it, send an email apologizing and reschedule as early as you are aware you can't make it. And be flexible - they might cancel on you. Busy people often have to cancel at the last minute; don’t take it personally.\n\nMake sure your 15 minutes before the call is free so that you’re on time, and watch the clock so that you can close with a minute to spare. If they want more time with you, they’ll ask. ;)\n\nWe hope that these tips are helpful in preparing for your next networking opportunity. You’re lucky to get on someone’s calendar, make the most of the chance and don’t waste it sending someone your Linkedin link. Make a great impression; you never know when your paths will cross again. ","content_html":"In this episode we’re taking a lesson from something that happened to Liz and using it to help people be prepared for networking meetings, especially when networking with executives.
\n\nLiz posted on Linkedin about how her company is hiring, why it's great to work there, and told people to sign up for time with her if they were interested. Well, her calendar was FILLED….mostly with job seekers looking for pretty significant career changes.
\n\nWhen people met with Liz, a lot of them didn’t know how to maximize their time with her. We decided to put together a list of ways for people to use the opportunity to network with someone who can influence your career.
\n\nFirst, help the person you are talking with prepare. Make sure they have your resume or Linkedin profile and that they know the nature of the conversation. If you’re talking with them about a job or even about a specific role or team, let them know beforehand. Assume this person is busy, so help them prepare for the meeting by giving them any relevant information. Don’t waste face time giving the high level overview of who you are and what you want from the meeting - get that out of the way over email first. You can go deeper in the meeting if both of you arrive prepared.
\n\nNext, be prepared yourself. Research them a bit. Research their company, the latest news, what they do. Don’t waste time asking questions that can be found easily on the web. You’re networking - be prepared to impress by doing the research up front. This will also help you maximize your time together by not wasting time with Captain Obvious questions.
\n\nThird, if you’re getting to know them without a predetermined agenda, have your elevator pitch ready and be ready to say what you want from the meeting. You’re taking their time, make sure you get what you want out of it. Be concise and ready to clearly share your background and what you’re looking to get from this meeting.
\n\nFourth, let them run the meeting and ask the questions. Saying hi and then verbal vomiting without stopping to let them get a word in edgewise is not the way to go here. Since you’ve prepared them by sending over your reason for being on their calendar and your profile, let them take the reins. They may see something in you and start inquiring for reasons you don’t know. Let them. Extra advice around letting a woman leader run the meeting if you are a man, because women have radars out for men who run over them in meetings….don’t let that be a point against you.
\n\nLastly, be mindful of the time. Most managers and executives have packed days filled with meetings. That means: be on time and don’t go over. AND DON'T GHOST! Ghosting -- not showing up for the call without any communication or warning -- really interrupts the day and builds resentment, especially with busy people. If you can’t make it, send an email apologizing and reschedule as early as you are aware you can't make it. And be flexible - they might cancel on you. Busy people often have to cancel at the last minute; don’t take it personally.
\n\nMake sure your 15 minutes before the call is free so that you’re on time, and watch the clock so that you can close with a minute to spare. If they want more time with you, they’ll ask. ;)
\n\nWe hope that these tips are helpful in preparing for your next networking opportunity. You’re lucky to get on someone’s calendar, make the most of the chance and don’t waste it sending someone your Linkedin link. Make a great impression; you never know when your paths will cross again.
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk about how to show up for a call with an executive. Don't waste their time! ","date_published":"2022-01-18T07:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/a4b801bc-2289-43d4-94e2-d44761208338.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":15348465,"duration_in_seconds":1435}]},{"id":"a4b31adb-b0bc-47ab-9be7-b4edb71f8654","title":"Episode 78: Career Rehab with Kanika Tolver","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/78-career-rehab-with-kanika-tolver","content_text":"Welcome to Kanika Tolver, speaker, CEO/founder, and author of Career Rehab. Kanika is a tech program manager who has build a business around helping people find and get the jobs they really want and will really love. Kanika inspires people around the globe to pursue their dreams, build their personal brands, and she is part of our tribe of people urging people to be the CEOs of their careers.\n\nIn 2014 Kanika was unhappy in her job as a project manager at a Federal agency, and she decided to check herself into Career Rehab and work on her skills, revamp her resume, and check out what it was like working the private sector. She had experienced toxic management and she was done being in an environment where her ideas weren’t heard.\n\nTo make the big change from government to private sector, Kanika learned what private sector employers are looking for. She revamped her Linkedin profile, learned new skills like Agile/Scrum, and built her resume around skills to show her fit. She made sure she would be found, her skill gaps were filled, and posted her resume -- and the jobs came to her.\n\nKanika’s first private sector role was in consulting servicing the public sector. She was recruited by Deloitte to be a Senior Consultant, and started \"dating jobs.\" Kanika told people to date jobs -- get what you need from the job, and get out as soon as you see yourself tapped out. At Deloitte, Kanika learned the power of building a professional network.\n\nKanika quickly built a network internally and externally- not only with other black women, but with all types of professionals so that she could get a well-rounded picture of what success looks like and what she needs for success.\n\nIt was important to Kanika to get all sorts of perspectives to have a holistic view of success, and in her words, “network like a hustler.”\n\nAn architect designs a house based on what they need in the house, how many rooms, what features, and how it will fit on the land. Kanika tells people to do the same thing with their careers. What do they see themselves doing and then what skills or experience do they need to get to get there. She builds a personal goals list and a career goals list and then figures out how to make both work together.\n\nAt the beginning of careers, we think more about money and getting a job vs on a must-have or nice-to-have list, but having clear goals and understanding where you’re going and where you want to go in your life and career - that will help you to assess opportunities.\n\nWho needs career rehab? Kanika wrote her book for three personas: \n\n\ncool geeks (people with < 5 years of experience) who are ambitious and energetic but don’t know what they don’t know\ncorporate rebels (mid-level or senior professionals) who are ready to be promoted, and are rebels for their own causes\ncareer dropouts who are making a big career change and switching careers.\n\n\nKanika teaches us that we need to market ourselves and build personal brand. She talks about millennials being the masters of personal brand. She talks about building ourselves and doing things to be able to market. A degree is a foundation, but focus on accomplishments and branding to showcase how you can be an asset to an organization. She encourages people to create content: blogs, podcasts, tweets, etc. \n\nWe asked about introverts: How do they brand themselves authentically and comfortably? and Kanika advises to build authentic and deeper relationships. If you’re shy and scared to go to networking events, bring an extraverted coworker or friend to push you.\n\nStress, anxiety, and depression can get in the way of us finding our path in our career. Finding career clarity through any of those times is really hard, because it’s so hard to see ourselves as strong when we’re not feeling our best. Kanika tells people to focus on personal goals first, and that will often shed some of the baggage and help create career goals to find personal clarity.\n\nAfter we identify the mental barriers, identify what you enjoy doing and align them to your talents and strengths and build your skill set and learn what you need to move forward.\n\nKanika on Twitter: @kanikatolver\nInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/kanikatolver/\nFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/CareerRehab/ and https://www.facebook.com/KanikaRTolver\nLinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kanikatolver/\nEmail: coachkanika@gmail.com","content_html":"Welcome to Kanika Tolver, speaker, CEO/founder, and author of Career Rehab. Kanika is a tech program manager who has build a business around helping people find and get the jobs they really want and will really love. Kanika inspires people around the globe to pursue their dreams, build their personal brands, and she is part of our tribe of people urging people to be the CEOs of their careers.
\n\nIn 2014 Kanika was unhappy in her job as a project manager at a Federal agency, and she decided to check herself into Career Rehab and work on her skills, revamp her resume, and check out what it was like working the private sector. She had experienced toxic management and she was done being in an environment where her ideas weren’t heard.
\n\nTo make the big change from government to private sector, Kanika learned what private sector employers are looking for. She revamped her Linkedin profile, learned new skills like Agile/Scrum, and built her resume around skills to show her fit. She made sure she would be found, her skill gaps were filled, and posted her resume -- and the jobs came to her.
\n\nKanika’s first private sector role was in consulting servicing the public sector. She was recruited by Deloitte to be a Senior Consultant, and started "dating jobs." Kanika told people to date jobs -- get what you need from the job, and get out as soon as you see yourself tapped out. At Deloitte, Kanika learned the power of building a professional network.
\n\nKanika quickly built a network internally and externally- not only with other black women, but with all types of professionals so that she could get a well-rounded picture of what success looks like and what she needs for success.
\n\nIt was important to Kanika to get all sorts of perspectives to have a holistic view of success, and in her words, “network like a hustler.”
\n\nAn architect designs a house based on what they need in the house, how many rooms, what features, and how it will fit on the land. Kanika tells people to do the same thing with their careers. What do they see themselves doing and then what skills or experience do they need to get to get there. She builds a personal goals list and a career goals list and then figures out how to make both work together.
\n\nAt the beginning of careers, we think more about money and getting a job vs on a must-have or nice-to-have list, but having clear goals and understanding where you’re going and where you want to go in your life and career - that will help you to assess opportunities.
\n\nWho needs career rehab? Kanika wrote her book for three personas:
\n\nKanika teaches us that we need to market ourselves and build personal brand. She talks about millennials being the masters of personal brand. She talks about building ourselves and doing things to be able to market. A degree is a foundation, but focus on accomplishments and branding to showcase how you can be an asset to an organization. She encourages people to create content: blogs, podcasts, tweets, etc.
\n\nWe asked about introverts: How do they brand themselves authentically and comfortably? and Kanika advises to build authentic and deeper relationships. If you’re shy and scared to go to networking events, bring an extraverted coworker or friend to push you.
\n\nStress, anxiety, and depression can get in the way of us finding our path in our career. Finding career clarity through any of those times is really hard, because it’s so hard to see ourselves as strong when we’re not feeling our best. Kanika tells people to focus on personal goals first, and that will often shed some of the baggage and help create career goals to find personal clarity.
\n\nAfter we identify the mental barriers, identify what you enjoy doing and align them to your talents and strengths and build your skill set and learn what you need to move forward.
\n\nKanika on Twitter: @kanikatolver
\nInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/kanikatolver/
\nFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/CareerRehab/ and https://www.facebook.com/KanikaRTolver
\nLinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kanikatolver/
\nEmail: coachkanika@gmail.com
Today we’re talking about bereavement and bereavement leave and what to do when you need to take bereavement.
\n\nMany companies offer very little bereavement leave. A leae of 3 days for a close loved one is typical, which we think is crazy, as our stance is that most people will not be able to come back after losing a family member after 3 days. AND, if they do come back, they won’t be at anywhere near full capacity.
\n\nWe hope that company cultures support people when they are grieving, and we ask our listeners to give people who are grieving a lot of caring and compassion.
\n\nOur overall advice is to help you to take the time you need and keep your job too.
\n\nIf your leave is at all anticipated, tell your manager and teammates and keep them posted. Cover your work, keep people updated, and prepare coverage like you would for any other time off.
\n\nDon’t take on big new projects when you have a loved one who is critically ill, but try to get your work covered. It’s time for some vulnerability so people understand what you are dealing with.
\n\nWhen there is an unexpected loss, the best thing you can do is communicate immediately, ask a colleague for help (preferably someone who will have your back), delegate and share your projects or appropriate access to someone who can figure things out. Give a quick update to everyone and let them to figure it out.
\n\nKeep in touch and update your manager/team about where you are in the process and what you need (e.g., we just had the funeral and I need another leave).
\n\nThere are types of more formal, .longer leave (FMLA or unpaid leave) that can protect your job while you take the time off you need. Work with your HR team to take the right type of leave. Ask about your options and find out what you can do to keep your job.
\n\nSometimes unpaid leave is the way to go to protect your job; sometimes taking some time off can save your job so that you’re not working while your mind is in a fog. Giving yourself time and space can really help you in the long run.
\n\nTry not to make huge decisions about work when you’re grieving because you won’t have the required 'new hire' energy. It’s not the time to do a job search. That said, how your team and manager responds to your loss is an indicator of your long term fit at the company. If they treat you well, it’s probably a special place.
\n\nIf you have a team member who has experienced a loss, you want to help that person as much as you can. Take on projects, be an ear to listen, and express your condolences however feels comfortable for you. Welcome them back. Honor them and be kind.
\n\nWhen you’re a manager of a grieving person, how you respond to their situation will truly show your true colors. The most important thing is caring for the person- because if you do, it will come back to you in spades because not only are you affecting them, but their colleagues are watching too.
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk about bereavement leave, what it is, how to discuss it and request leave at work, and how to manage at work if you or a colleague needs to take some time off.","date_published":"2021-12-21T07:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/ff724e13-2dbb-4598-9524-2ff7ca22ccc7.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":14498601,"duration_in_seconds":1208}]},{"id":"06ddd8ea-544b-49b0-bbef-5151f0f01d65","title":"Episode 76: Follow Your Path with Dr Carol Parker Walsh","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/76-follow-your-path-with-dr-carol-parker-walsh","content_text":"Today we’re welcoming Dr. Carol Parker Walsh, whose tagline we love: she helps high-achieving professional women at midlife courageously design a career, brand & life they love. Carol is a coach, a speaker, best-selling author and business owner. \n\nCarol followed her path to go to school, get degrees, and go down a life path -- when she realized she that this path was doing what was important to others vs what was important to her. Carol realized that the thread in her career was teaching and helping others with their careers and inspiring and motivating women, and she’s been doing it for 7 years.\n\nCarol doesn’t see herself as having a lot of career changes; she sees herself as being someone who has evolved from employment attorney to HR person to organizational management trainer and consultant and then taught and was an Associate Dean in leadership. All of her jobs were around helping people and companies be better at what they do.\n\nWe ask Carol about languishing and feeling like there is more out there for us. She had an experience in a car accident, which told her she had to turn and do something different with her gift of life. When we languish, we’re afraid of making a wrong decision, so we stay where we are. We are also afraid to try because of the possibility of things not working out. We also buy into the sunk cost fallacy around the time we’ve already spent and we don’t want to lose that investment. \n\nChoosing a new path could open new doors and empowers us to see “what if” vs wondering. Regrets come from the things we don’t do and the risks we don’t take.\n\nBig question: how do we figure out what’s next and plan how to get there? Find gratitude for where you are and what you have. Look how far you’ve come and appreciate it: write 100 accomplishments about yourself. Then look at your future self and see where they are and how they got there. If you’re stuck, ask your future self what they did. The key around success is flexibility and adaptability. When blips happen, we can’t let them derail us completely, but we get around them and keep moving forward.\n\nEven in coming up with that list of 100 accomplishments, we can find resistance, and we need to work through it to start recognizing our accomplishments. Stuck? Time to go to people who know you and can help you hold up to a mirror to yourself.\n\nLooking through the lens of alignment, we want to align the ecosystem of all of the pieces of our lives. We have to see what needs attention and lean towards that place -- be in the center and core of who we are and our values. This helps us decide what to focus on. \n\nWe get messed up when we think everything needs equal weight. Our values and overall goals -- be it social, health, or career -- will help us to balance and make choices throughout our lives. And, the choices we make are the right ones for that time in our life.\n\nHow do we discover what we should do in this world? The thing is, we don’t know everything that is out there in the world! Think about buying a car. You make a list about the features you need, the looks you like, and so on. If we need a minivan, but then buy a sports car, it’s not a fit. We have to look at career choices the same way: as a holistic list of features and responsibilities that we need and want.\n\nCarol’s focus is on women in mid-life. She built her brand and business by sharing her life, truth, struggles, and in sharing honestly her process in finding her own authenticity. When we lose the chains of the patriarchy that tells us what we need to be and limits what can do, that’s when we can tear up those rules and define our own path and what’s best for us. We’re all so much more powerful than we think we are.\n\nPersonal branding is a big thing, but what about the people who don’t want the spotlight? Well...be it and own it and make sure you have profiles out there to say who and what you are.\n\nFear is...scary, and for Carol, the scariest thing was becoming an entrepreneur at 50 and not having a regular paycheck. She knew it wasn’t practical, but when her dad passed away, she realized that life is short and she needed to live a life she wouldn’t regret. As soon as she made the decision and quit her job, the nerves went away. Looking back, she feels like her life began at that moment.\n\nWe’re now in a phase that people are calling the Great Resignation -- or as Carol calls it, the Great Realization. She sees people looking for work with meaning. She shows how people innovate and change with flexibility, especially post-Covid, and sees people who are looking for a human-centered approach to work. People look for places that will allow people to change and adapt as the world moves forward, and employers are looking for people who are adaptable.\n\nConnect with Carol:\nTwitter: https://twitter.com/drcpwalsh\nFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DrCarolParkerWalsh\nInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/drcarolparkerwalsh/\nWebsite: https://www.carolparkerwalsh.com/\nPodcast: https://www.carolparkerwalsh.com/podcast","content_html":"Today we’re welcoming Dr. Carol Parker Walsh, whose tagline we love: she helps high-achieving professional women at midlife courageously design a career, brand & life they love. Carol is a coach, a speaker, best-selling author and business owner.
\n\nCarol followed her path to go to school, get degrees, and go down a life path -- when she realized she that this path was doing what was important to others vs what was important to her. Carol realized that the thread in her career was teaching and helping others with their careers and inspiring and motivating women, and she’s been doing it for 7 years.
\n\nCarol doesn’t see herself as having a lot of career changes; she sees herself as being someone who has evolved from employment attorney to HR person to organizational management trainer and consultant and then taught and was an Associate Dean in leadership. All of her jobs were around helping people and companies be better at what they do.
\n\nWe ask Carol about languishing and feeling like there is more out there for us. She had an experience in a car accident, which told her she had to turn and do something different with her gift of life. When we languish, we’re afraid of making a wrong decision, so we stay where we are. We are also afraid to try because of the possibility of things not working out. We also buy into the sunk cost fallacy around the time we’ve already spent and we don’t want to lose that investment.
\n\nChoosing a new path could open new doors and empowers us to see “what if” vs wondering. Regrets come from the things we don’t do and the risks we don’t take.
\n\nBig question: how do we figure out what’s next and plan how to get there? Find gratitude for where you are and what you have. Look how far you’ve come and appreciate it: write 100 accomplishments about yourself. Then look at your future self and see where they are and how they got there. If you’re stuck, ask your future self what they did. The key around success is flexibility and adaptability. When blips happen, we can’t let them derail us completely, but we get around them and keep moving forward.
\n\nEven in coming up with that list of 100 accomplishments, we can find resistance, and we need to work through it to start recognizing our accomplishments. Stuck? Time to go to people who know you and can help you hold up to a mirror to yourself.
\n\nLooking through the lens of alignment, we want to align the ecosystem of all of the pieces of our lives. We have to see what needs attention and lean towards that place -- be in the center and core of who we are and our values. This helps us decide what to focus on.
\n\nWe get messed up when we think everything needs equal weight. Our values and overall goals -- be it social, health, or career -- will help us to balance and make choices throughout our lives. And, the choices we make are the right ones for that time in our life.
\n\nHow do we discover what we should do in this world? The thing is, we don’t know everything that is out there in the world! Think about buying a car. You make a list about the features you need, the looks you like, and so on. If we need a minivan, but then buy a sports car, it’s not a fit. We have to look at career choices the same way: as a holistic list of features and responsibilities that we need and want.
\n\nCarol’s focus is on women in mid-life. She built her brand and business by sharing her life, truth, struggles, and in sharing honestly her process in finding her own authenticity. When we lose the chains of the patriarchy that tells us what we need to be and limits what can do, that’s when we can tear up those rules and define our own path and what’s best for us. We’re all so much more powerful than we think we are.
\n\nPersonal branding is a big thing, but what about the people who don’t want the spotlight? Well...be it and own it and make sure you have profiles out there to say who and what you are.
\n\nFear is...scary, and for Carol, the scariest thing was becoming an entrepreneur at 50 and not having a regular paycheck. She knew it wasn’t practical, but when her dad passed away, she realized that life is short and she needed to live a life she wouldn’t regret. As soon as she made the decision and quit her job, the nerves went away. Looking back, she feels like her life began at that moment.
\n\nWe’re now in a phase that people are calling the Great Resignation -- or as Carol calls it, the Great Realization. She sees people looking for work with meaning. She shows how people innovate and change with flexibility, especially post-Covid, and sees people who are looking for a human-centered approach to work. People look for places that will allow people to change and adapt as the world moves forward, and employers are looking for people who are adaptable.
\n\nConnect with Carol:
\nTwitter: https://twitter.com/drcpwalsh
\nFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/DrCarolParkerWalsh
\nInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/drcarolparkerwalsh/
\nWebsite: https://www.carolparkerwalsh.com/
\nPodcast: https://www.carolparkerwalsh.com/podcast
We have a listener question!!! We got a great email from a global listener that we had to record right away (we sent them the raw recording). The letter was as follows:
\n\n\n\n\nHi ladies
\n\n
\nI have recently discovered this podcast and it has already helped me so much.I am a lawyer. I began working at a firm run by two people that I know very well and have a long (20 year) history with. Prior to accepting this role, I had another 6 week stint at a smaller law firm, but left that role to work here. 7 weeks into starting this new role I have the opportunity to interview at a large industrial company - a job that I desperately want, and which is out of practising law - something else I desperately want. This role offers double the salary, gym benefits, car leasing, health insurance - basically everything I could need.
\n\nMy question to you is: how do I quit a job that I have only just started!? I want to do the right thing by the people I know, but this opportunity is too good to pass up.
\n
\nSend help!
\nThank you,
\nJanet
First, we thank Janet for writing in and using her Board of Advisors (which now we’re on!). We tell her to follow her heart and dreams, and if she gets the job go for it.
\n\nThen we remind Janet that she needs to figure out IF this is her ideal job, so she needs to really do some work on her must-have list. The reason is that we want Janet to figure out what she’s running towards and what she’s running from. To make a pivot, especially from something like law that takes a lot of time and education, is a big tough decision. We tell her to really be clear on her values and align them with the new company.
\n\nRight now the job has rose-covered glasses and a gym membership, but those will fade and since you’ve recently made a move, we want this job to stick, and if values aren’t aligned it won’t.
\n\nFor Janet, she will need to quit a job where she was just hired by people who she’s known for 20 years. We assume they wanted to work with her and we want her to leave the conversation with them happy for her, but disappointed for themselves.
\n\nTell them how great they are and how much you like working with them, and that you were not looking but the perfect opportunity came to you and you took it. List out the comp, benefits, move from law and why you couldn’t refuse this offer. Make sure they can look at the opportunity through your eyes and that this isn’t about them but it is about your happiness.
\n\nMost importantly, try your best to find and train your replacement. This means asking the new job to give you more time before you start in order to not leave your new role in a lurch. Whatever you can do to help your replacement is what you want to do with sincerity. You’re reaching out to your connections, posting the role, and making a public effort to find someone new.
\n\nIf you quit with sincerity, show people your path, and do your best to find and train your replacement, you will preserve your relationships. Assess the opportunity and follow your dreams, Janet!
","summary":"Liz and Kat answer a listener question: how do I give notice that I'm quitting at a job I just started? ","date_published":"2021-11-23T10:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/10836bb0-209a-46ac-aee4-562975836e84.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":7301479,"duration_in_seconds":608}]},{"id":"6bf9ae2a-d23b-4b3c-b788-90b023ba4782","title":"Episode 74: New Job Checklist","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/74-new-job-checklist","content_text":"You're starting a new job. Congrats! OK, now what's next?\n\nEvery company does onboarding differently: some bigger companies tend to have more structured onboarding and some start-ups less so. HR onboarding is more about paperwork, but the true onboarding that we are talking about is how the existing team and managers can help new people understand what’s needed in the role, how to do the job and how to maneuver around the company.\n\nFirst thing in a new job is to meet with your manager to get the lay of the land and talk about expectations for 30, 60, and 90 days in. Ask “What are you looking for from me in this role?”.\n\nNext, connect with a colleague who can show you the hands-on ropes and make it so that you’re not always going to your manager with every question. Ask how things are done: how do you use email, Slack, phone etc, and learn how others do things to learn company norms. Mirroring will help establish fit and connection.\n\nTake a look at the org chart and see who is running the show, meaning IT, office manager, etc. They can help you understand how things work. Help them help you and be very grateful.\n\nIn those first weeks, be an observer: learn how things are done, but try to get to know people and company norms before you jump right in. Your goal should be to learn and help to make things better. The caveat “I’m new and learning, but from my experience….” is a powerful one.\n\nThe learning curve is intense in the first 3-6 months of a new job. Give yourself time and make sure you’re taking good care of yourself so that you maintain your new hire energy. Timing is everything when you’re going for a new job, and you need to know what you need to be successful, both in the job and what your personal life allows.\n\nGood luck in the new job!","content_html":"You're starting a new job. Congrats! OK, now what's next?
\n\nEvery company does onboarding differently: some bigger companies tend to have more structured onboarding and some start-ups less so. HR onboarding is more about paperwork, but the true onboarding that we are talking about is how the existing team and managers can help new people understand what’s needed in the role, how to do the job and how to maneuver around the company.
\n\nFirst thing in a new job is to meet with your manager to get the lay of the land and talk about expectations for 30, 60, and 90 days in. Ask “What are you looking for from me in this role?”.
\n\nNext, connect with a colleague who can show you the hands-on ropes and make it so that you’re not always going to your manager with every question. Ask how things are done: how do you use email, Slack, phone etc, and learn how others do things to learn company norms. Mirroring will help establish fit and connection.
\n\nTake a look at the org chart and see who is running the show, meaning IT, office manager, etc. They can help you understand how things work. Help them help you and be very grateful.
\n\nIn those first weeks, be an observer: learn how things are done, but try to get to know people and company norms before you jump right in. Your goal should be to learn and help to make things better. The caveat “I’m new and learning, but from my experience….” is a powerful one.
\n\nThe learning curve is intense in the first 3-6 months of a new job. Give yourself time and make sure you’re taking good care of yourself so that you maintain your new hire energy. Timing is everything when you’re going for a new job, and you need to know what you need to be successful, both in the job and what your personal life allows.
\n\nGood luck in the new job!
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk about what to do when you're starting a new job.","date_published":"2021-11-09T06:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/6bf9ae2a-d23b-4b3c-b788-90b023ba4782.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":14757765,"duration_in_seconds":1229}]},{"id":"15958e58-aee1-4c5c-b33b-fc4b8c74a233","title":"Episode 73: Job search and resume tips from a recruiter - with Michele Olivier","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/73-job-search-and-resume-tips-from-a-recruiter-with-michele-olivier","content_text":"Welcome Michele, resume coach, recruiter, and LI influencer extraordinaire. Michele is a seasoned global HR professional who is the owner of O&H Consulting. We brought Michele to RJT to talk about resumes, job searches and to give insider tips around job seeking.\n\nMichele’s big picture resume rules:\n\n\nThe top one-third of your first page needs to answer who you are, what you want, and why does the reader care?\nDepending on which ATS (applicant tracking system) we’re working on, we either see the actual resume you uploaded, or we get a parsed version which is word soup.\nNo pictures. Ever.\nNo canned phrases -- recruiters know them and dislike them...if you have the word “athlete”, you better be talking about a sport….\n\n\nInsider tip: recruiters look at your resume for a few seconds to decide if you are a no or a maybe. If you’re a maybe, we’ll give you a lot of time, but if we can’t see a maybe in a few seconds, we won’t scroll down.\n\nMost recruiters work with databases called an ATS. Many of them parse fancy resumes into word soup, so make sure you have a text only resume if you are applying online.\n\nOn your resume, NO PICTURES. Some companies have to rule you out if you attach pictures. Words only.\n\nMichele advises to show both who you are as a professional and who you are as a person. Michele talks about a friend who is both an Engineering Manager and an Aspiring Zombie Novelist... Recruiters want to talk to people who are interesting, so grab their attention appropriately!\n\nLinkedIn is a business, so if you want your profile noticed, you need to be an active LinkedIn user. If you’re searching for a job, it helps to be an active user, because you come up in the algorithm more often. To be an active user, you must have 500+ connections, and provide five pieces of data a day, meaning a like, comment, share, or post. Liking five things a day matters to the algorithm, and you will come up higher when people are searching for you.\n\nSome recruiters have special access to LI Recruiter, which is very $$, so many recruiters don’t use it.\n\nWe talk about Open To Work... Michele thinks it’s fine, but it also leaves you open to contingent recruiter reach outs and people selling bad resume writing to you.\n\nMichele, as a resume writer, talks about how to find someone who isn’t a snake oil salesperson resume writer (they’re out there in droves). There’s a LI group called Job Seeker Guardians whose purpose is to keep people from being ripped off by bad resume writers. Ask them before hiring someone! Also, make sure they have been an active recruiter in the last 5 years. The industry has changed, and you want someone who has the most recent information. Someone who has never been a recruiter, even if they’ve hired people before, won’t have the perspective of someone who has recruited. Lastly, if someone asks for your resume and wants to send it back “done” and doesn’t talk to you isn’t worth it. If it’s under $100, they’re either not spending time or their time isn’t valuable ... either are a rip off.\n\nSmarmy resume writers love ripping off executives. Execs need a 1-sheet for the panel and Board, but they also need a developed 4 page strategy around the strategies and cultures they’ve created.\n\nEven more tips? Numbers! Numbers create context. Don’t tell me your duties, but tell me your impact. As a sales person, we know you create rapport, but we want to know what your numbers were and did you hit them? What did you sell, who did you sell it to, and how much did you sell???\n\nThe technology you work with is important. What systems do you use? For example, in HR, what HRIS do you know? Payroll system? ATS? Performance system??? People search for the technologies you use. That said, saying you know email, Word, Excel, Zoom just makes you someone living in 2021.\n\nFor people who are managers, they still brand themselves as an IC and then are surprised when they are only tagged as an IC and then get rejected because they’re a strategic contributor.\n\nBe honest about the technology you know or you risk getting caught. Saying you know version 1.7 when the latest version is 1.2 will get you caught. Also, do not lie about degrees or jobs -- background checks will catch you. Lying in an application will not go well for you and will put you on the “never hire” list for that company. In general, telling the truth will be so much easier and will help them get to know the real you.\n\nWe asked Michele how to work with recruiters. Her first piece of advice is to never pay a recruiter/website to find you a job. Her second piece of advice is that recruiters work for companies, and not for you. Help them figure out if it’s a waste of time, yours and theirs, and see if it’s a fit. They’re not the hiring manager, but can be a great advocate, and they want to see if you’re going to be a fit. Have a pitch of what you’re doing and what you’re looking for and be ready to give it when asked. Be ready to answer questions and talk about money up front because the recruiter is trying to see if it’s a good fit. It’s not worth your time if they can’t pay you.","content_html":"Welcome Michele, resume coach, recruiter, and LI influencer extraordinaire. Michele is a seasoned global HR professional who is the owner of O&H Consulting. We brought Michele to RJT to talk about resumes, job searches and to give insider tips around job seeking.
\n\nMichele’s big picture resume rules:
\n\nInsider tip: recruiters look at your resume for a few seconds to decide if you are a no or a maybe. If you’re a maybe, we’ll give you a lot of time, but if we can’t see a maybe in a few seconds, we won’t scroll down.
\n\nMost recruiters work with databases called an ATS. Many of them parse fancy resumes into word soup, so make sure you have a text only resume if you are applying online.
\n\nOn your resume, NO PICTURES. Some companies have to rule you out if you attach pictures. Words only.
\n\nMichele advises to show both who you are as a professional and who you are as a person. Michele talks about a friend who is both an Engineering Manager and an Aspiring Zombie Novelist... Recruiters want to talk to people who are interesting, so grab their attention appropriately!
\n\nLinkedIn is a business, so if you want your profile noticed, you need to be an active LinkedIn user. If you’re searching for a job, it helps to be an active user, because you come up in the algorithm more often. To be an active user, you must have 500+ connections, and provide five pieces of data a day, meaning a like, comment, share, or post. Liking five things a day matters to the algorithm, and you will come up higher when people are searching for you.
\n\nSome recruiters have special access to LI Recruiter, which is very $$, so many recruiters don’t use it.
\n\nWe talk about Open To Work... Michele thinks it’s fine, but it also leaves you open to contingent recruiter reach outs and people selling bad resume writing to you.
\n\nMichele, as a resume writer, talks about how to find someone who isn’t a snake oil salesperson resume writer (they’re out there in droves). There’s a LI group called Job Seeker Guardians whose purpose is to keep people from being ripped off by bad resume writers. Ask them before hiring someone! Also, make sure they have been an active recruiter in the last 5 years. The industry has changed, and you want someone who has the most recent information. Someone who has never been a recruiter, even if they’ve hired people before, won’t have the perspective of someone who has recruited. Lastly, if someone asks for your resume and wants to send it back “done” and doesn’t talk to you isn’t worth it. If it’s under $100, they’re either not spending time or their time isn’t valuable ... either are a rip off.
\n\nSmarmy resume writers love ripping off executives. Execs need a 1-sheet for the panel and Board, but they also need a developed 4 page strategy around the strategies and cultures they’ve created.
\n\nEven more tips? Numbers! Numbers create context. Don’t tell me your duties, but tell me your impact. As a sales person, we know you create rapport, but we want to know what your numbers were and did you hit them? What did you sell, who did you sell it to, and how much did you sell???
\n\nThe technology you work with is important. What systems do you use? For example, in HR, what HRIS do you know? Payroll system? ATS? Performance system??? People search for the technologies you use. That said, saying you know email, Word, Excel, Zoom just makes you someone living in 2021.
\n\nFor people who are managers, they still brand themselves as an IC and then are surprised when they are only tagged as an IC and then get rejected because they’re a strategic contributor.
\n\nBe honest about the technology you know or you risk getting caught. Saying you know version 1.7 when the latest version is 1.2 will get you caught. Also, do not lie about degrees or jobs -- background checks will catch you. Lying in an application will not go well for you and will put you on the “never hire” list for that company. In general, telling the truth will be so much easier and will help them get to know the real you.
\n\nWe asked Michele how to work with recruiters. Her first piece of advice is to never pay a recruiter/website to find you a job. Her second piece of advice is that recruiters work for companies, and not for you. Help them figure out if it’s a waste of time, yours and theirs, and see if it’s a fit. They’re not the hiring manager, but can be a great advocate, and they want to see if you’re going to be a fit. Have a pitch of what you’re doing and what you’re looking for and be ready to give it when asked. Be ready to answer questions and talk about money up front because the recruiter is trying to see if it’s a good fit. It’s not worth your time if they can’t pay you.
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk with a coach and recruiting insider about what to do - and not to do - with your resume and your job search.","date_published":"2021-10-26T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/15958e58-aee1-4c5c-b33b-fc4b8c74a233.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":40964003,"duration_in_seconds":3413}]},{"id":"e1237984-196f-4f81-9c3c-41c4782e8cf0","title":"Episode 72: Divisiveness at work","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/72-divisiveness-at-work","content_text":"This week we talk about divisiveness at work. Divisive opinions at work are an example of divisiveness in the world ... people seem to be on one side or the other of so many issues, and we can’t remember a time when people have been so polarized.\n\nWe love the saying “Let’s agree to disagree.\" -- thank you David Campt for going deeper on that with us in Episode 52 -- and we try to use it whenever possible.\n\nBy diviseness, we’re talking about when there are different camps who don’t come together - or people who like to make work political. We agree that good leaders help build alignment and cohesiveness. Building respect around the mission -- and a leader who demands respectful interaction -- helps to bring people together to work towards common goals.\n\nTaking a time out can also work. When you’re feeling emotional, take a time out and find a time to talk it through at another time.\n\nSome roles that these dividers can take at work:\n\nThe Whisperer. You know them: the person who goes cube to cube whispering (but they don't go to SOME people’s cubes) or is calling ⅔ of the team members. This person who promotes exclusivity and in- vs out-groups. This person might recommend you say something in a meeting, but when you stick your neck out, they don’t back you up.\n\nThe Exhausted person. When we’re fried, we’re not as resilient, and we’re not our best selves ... so sometimes stress and lack of resilience brings out bad behavior.\n\nThe Bully. They need boundaries or they will run over everyone, so you need to push back or they’ll get out of control.\n\nShout out to Sarah Noll Wilson in Episode 26 and her call to leadership to go deeper and see their people as HUMANS and to teammates who acknowledge stress and offer to help/cover and work together to take a minute.\n\nIf your team is divided, you can talk with your leadership privately to tell them what you’re seeing and ask for help in bringing people together.\n\nHow do you work with a divisive person? Try to talk 1:1, document divisive behavior, try to align with everyone in the group in hopes that others won’t exclude you. Raise your hand to show that you’re capable and want to work with others. \n\nHumor is a great way to diffuse a tough work situation. Making people laugh can really bring stress levels down.\n\nWhen nothing is working, talk with your boss and ask for suggestions of how we can work together.\n\nSometimes things get heated, and it’s ok to take some time off and come back when you’re calm. Write the emotional email as a journal entry, and then write another that’s kind, compassionate, and helpful with the goal towards working together.","content_html":"This week we talk about divisiveness at work. Divisive opinions at work are an example of divisiveness in the world ... people seem to be on one side or the other of so many issues, and we can’t remember a time when people have been so polarized.
\n\nWe love the saying “Let’s agree to disagree." -- thank you David Campt for going deeper on that with us in Episode 52 -- and we try to use it whenever possible.
\n\nBy diviseness, we’re talking about when there are different camps who don’t come together - or people who like to make work political. We agree that good leaders help build alignment and cohesiveness. Building respect around the mission -- and a leader who demands respectful interaction -- helps to bring people together to work towards common goals.
\n\nTaking a time out can also work. When you’re feeling emotional, take a time out and find a time to talk it through at another time.
\n\nSome roles that these dividers can take at work:
\n\nThe Whisperer. You know them: the person who goes cube to cube whispering (but they don't go to SOME people’s cubes) or is calling ⅔ of the team members. This person who promotes exclusivity and in- vs out-groups. This person might recommend you say something in a meeting, but when you stick your neck out, they don’t back you up.
\n\nThe Exhausted person. When we’re fried, we’re not as resilient, and we’re not our best selves ... so sometimes stress and lack of resilience brings out bad behavior.
\n\nThe Bully. They need boundaries or they will run over everyone, so you need to push back or they’ll get out of control.
\n\nShout out to Sarah Noll Wilson in Episode 26 and her call to leadership to go deeper and see their people as HUMANS and to teammates who acknowledge stress and offer to help/cover and work together to take a minute.
\n\nIf your team is divided, you can talk with your leadership privately to tell them what you’re seeing and ask for help in bringing people together.
\n\nHow do you work with a divisive person? Try to talk 1:1, document divisive behavior, try to align with everyone in the group in hopes that others won’t exclude you. Raise your hand to show that you’re capable and want to work with others.
\n\nHumor is a great way to diffuse a tough work situation. Making people laugh can really bring stress levels down.
\n\nWhen nothing is working, talk with your boss and ask for suggestions of how we can work together.
\n\nSometimes things get heated, and it’s ok to take some time off and come back when you’re calm. Write the emotional email as a journal entry, and then write another that’s kind, compassionate, and helpful with the goal towards working together.
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk about ","date_published":"2021-10-12T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/e1237984-196f-4f81-9c3c-41c4782e8cf0.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":24597152,"duration_in_seconds":1537}]},{"id":"85f8e35b-f22b-4371-b1ba-0bd0229c13aa","title":"Episode 71: When a Colleague Quits","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/71-when-a-colleague-quits","content_text":"We have a letter from a listener who doesn’t think they reacted properly when a colleague quit. They reacted with a big “Really? Why? I thought you liked it here!?!” and then felt like a bad colleague when the person looked visibly uncomfortable and showed them that they’d overstepped.\n\nFor the colleague, we referenced Episode 55 “The Art of Quitting”.\n\nWe discussed why the person might have quit that had nothing to do with the workplace or were reasons they didn’t want to share. Things like a personal illness or illness of a family member, or maybe the person is being quietly harassed and wants to get away. Whatever the reason, it’s that person’s to tell and not ours to ask.\n\nSo when a colleague quits, your response is, “Wow - I’ve really enjoyed working together, and I will miss having you on the team.” Use the opportunity to share words of appreciation and gratitude for how the person has supported you. Wish them well and offer to help with the transition.\n\nIt’s 100% up to the person who is quitting to share why they quit, where they are going, and how they came to the decision.\n\nNo questions. No matter how curious you are. Ultimately, it’s none of your business. AND, if it is a work issue that you don’t know about, the knowledge could impact your work experience.\n\nWhat if it was a breakup, and they’re sad about it and want to get away, but they never let anyone know they were dating a colleague?\n\nBeing kind and supportive around your relationship with them is #1. They’ve given notice and made the decision, so it’s not the time to convince them to stay. You want to help them move forward.\n\nNote to the quitters - have your story ready to go because people ARE going to ask, so you want to have an answer in order to minimize the drama.\n\nOur job as colleagues is to help someone exit gracefully and be a supportive colleague, figure out how to maintain the relationship and make it easy.","content_html":"We have a letter from a listener who doesn’t think they reacted properly when a colleague quit. They reacted with a big “Really? Why? I thought you liked it here!?!” and then felt like a bad colleague when the person looked visibly uncomfortable and showed them that they’d overstepped.
\n\nFor the colleague, we referenced Episode 55 “The Art of Quitting”.
\n\nWe discussed why the person might have quit that had nothing to do with the workplace or were reasons they didn’t want to share. Things like a personal illness or illness of a family member, or maybe the person is being quietly harassed and wants to get away. Whatever the reason, it’s that person’s to tell and not ours to ask.
\n\nSo when a colleague quits, your response is, “Wow - I’ve really enjoyed working together, and I will miss having you on the team.” Use the opportunity to share words of appreciation and gratitude for how the person has supported you. Wish them well and offer to help with the transition.
\n\nIt’s 100% up to the person who is quitting to share why they quit, where they are going, and how they came to the decision.
\n\nNo questions. No matter how curious you are. Ultimately, it’s none of your business. AND, if it is a work issue that you don’t know about, the knowledge could impact your work experience.
\n\nWhat if it was a breakup, and they’re sad about it and want to get away, but they never let anyone know they were dating a colleague?
\n\nBeing kind and supportive around your relationship with them is #1. They’ve given notice and made the decision, so it’s not the time to convince them to stay. You want to help them move forward.
\n\nNote to the quitters - have your story ready to go because people ARE going to ask, so you want to have an answer in order to minimize the drama.
\n\nOur job as colleagues is to help someone exit gracefully and be a supportive colleague, figure out how to maintain the relationship and make it easy.
","summary":"Liz and Kat answer a listener question about what to say when a coworker quits, and why they might not want to tell you the real answer!","date_published":"2021-09-28T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/85f8e35b-f22b-4371-b1ba-0bd0229c13aa.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":10227780,"duration_in_seconds":639}]},{"id":"ab54fc38-82d1-48b0-944b-9468790a55a6","title":"Episode 70: Realities of working parents with Whitney Casares","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/70-realities-of-working-parents-with-whitney-casares","content_text":"Welcome to Real Job Talk, Whitney Casares- the author of the Working Mom Blueprint, pediatrician, mom, and supporter of moms in the workplace through her community at www.modernmommydoc.com. We invited Whitney to join us to talk about the realities of being a working mom, and also to discuss how managers, teams, and companies can support working parents.\n\nThe pandemic has shed a light on the experience of being a working mom, and has given us a behind-the-scenes look at all of the things parents are juggling while also showing up at work. Whitney is the type of person who leans into everything she does- including being a pediatrician and a leader of her pediatric group. When Whitney became a mom she realized how hard it was to balance everything and felt like she was losing it in all areas. She started asking herself what she wanted her working mom life to look like, what gave her purpose, and she talked with other working moms about the inner conflict she was feeling.\n\nShe coaches women on thinking about what their center vision is and what they want to define their life. Whitney’s 5 center points are:\n\n\nConnection with her kids\nPersonal wellness\nContribution to other women in a meaningful way\nFinancial freedom\nTravel/adventure/new experiences\n\n\nShe decluttered her physical space and schedule so that when making decisions she has freedom to put up boundaries against things that don’t serve her center vision. That vision and those boundaries really come down to values- such as thinking about her children as being attached but independent.\n\nIt’s hard to break the pattern of being a pleaser and putting others in front of ourselves. It takes work (Whitney worked with a therapist and others). Surrounding yourself with like-minded people who are supportive of you is key to being true to yourself and your goals.\n\nAs a working parent, choosing your volunteering wisely is a key to preserving sanity and energy. Whitney knows that the example she shows her daughters of being a CEO and managing with empathy teaches them the value of hard work, the ability of women to succeed without running ourselves into the ground, showing the value of rest and rejuvenation.\n\nWe ask Whitney her thoughts on how society doesn’t support working parents (not being open off-hours, asking parents to help in the classroom etc), and how companies can support parents. Whitney mentions Mary-Beth Ferrante of Work 360 talking about Parenting Out Loud, which means having people at all levels of the organization feel comfortable talking about themselves as parents. If the CEO is talking about having to leave work to take their kid to the orthodontist, the accountant will feel free to do the same.\n\nWhitney talks about asking what you need as support as a parent, but she talks about mapping out solutions that meet all of the requirements of the job that needs to be done. It allows people to show up to work as themselves and identifying the problem and the solution. You can’t expect your employer to solve your problem, and when you create the solution you have more control over it.\n\nWe asked Whitney about Lean In and the message to working moms. Whitney feels like Sheryl Sandberg’s book represented a huge pendulum swing, and now we’ve moved things back towards the middle which now will move things forward. She also criticizes the original Lean In messaging that women need to be more masculine, especially since our emotional acuity is what makes us better at work. Hiding our femininity does not service our teams or ourselves.\n\nWe talk about not giving 100% and giving 70% in order to have reserves for ourselves, and Whitney discusses selective mediocrity. Some things require 100% of our attention, but others we can phone it in.\n\nWe asked Whitney what she wishes everyone working w parents, esp moms, knew, and she said to be aware of the depth of our conflict, and the desire to do it all and be it all. How we carry the mental load and a constant checklist of what our families need. Also to look at people as having moments and being able to take care of themselves during life changes and they will be more invested in the organization over time and thinking about what they can contribute over time. \n\nSeeing people as people and supporting them through change helps with retention. How do we support people as parents to make sure we have parents on our teams? Having representation at the highest levels of leadership is critical in order to make sure people’s needs are represented. AND if you’re the representative, you stand up for the people you represent. To make change, it’s ok to start small.\n\nWe talked about the great resignation and how over 3M women have left the workplace, and Whitney asks women to try and keep 1 foot in the door, but also for other people to mentor them back. People will come back to places that allow transparency and acknowledge the balance between parenting and work.\n\nBook: The Working Mom Blueprint\nWebsite: ModernMommyDoc.com\nFacebook: Modern Mommy Doc\nLinkedin: Whitney Casares\nTwitter: @modernmommydoc\nInstagram: @modernmommydoc","content_html":"Welcome to Real Job Talk, Whitney Casares- the author of the Working Mom Blueprint, pediatrician, mom, and supporter of moms in the workplace through her community at www.modernmommydoc.com. We invited Whitney to join us to talk about the realities of being a working mom, and also to discuss how managers, teams, and companies can support working parents.
\n\nThe pandemic has shed a light on the experience of being a working mom, and has given us a behind-the-scenes look at all of the things parents are juggling while also showing up at work. Whitney is the type of person who leans into everything she does- including being a pediatrician and a leader of her pediatric group. When Whitney became a mom she realized how hard it was to balance everything and felt like she was losing it in all areas. She started asking herself what she wanted her working mom life to look like, what gave her purpose, and she talked with other working moms about the inner conflict she was feeling.
\n\nShe coaches women on thinking about what their center vision is and what they want to define their life. Whitney’s 5 center points are:
\n\nShe decluttered her physical space and schedule so that when making decisions she has freedom to put up boundaries against things that don’t serve her center vision. That vision and those boundaries really come down to values- such as thinking about her children as being attached but independent.
\n\nIt’s hard to break the pattern of being a pleaser and putting others in front of ourselves. It takes work (Whitney worked with a therapist and others). Surrounding yourself with like-minded people who are supportive of you is key to being true to yourself and your goals.
\n\nAs a working parent, choosing your volunteering wisely is a key to preserving sanity and energy. Whitney knows that the example she shows her daughters of being a CEO and managing with empathy teaches them the value of hard work, the ability of women to succeed without running ourselves into the ground, showing the value of rest and rejuvenation.
\n\nWe ask Whitney her thoughts on how society doesn’t support working parents (not being open off-hours, asking parents to help in the classroom etc), and how companies can support parents. Whitney mentions Mary-Beth Ferrante of Work 360 talking about Parenting Out Loud, which means having people at all levels of the organization feel comfortable talking about themselves as parents. If the CEO is talking about having to leave work to take their kid to the orthodontist, the accountant will feel free to do the same.
\n\nWhitney talks about asking what you need as support as a parent, but she talks about mapping out solutions that meet all of the requirements of the job that needs to be done. It allows people to show up to work as themselves and identifying the problem and the solution. You can’t expect your employer to solve your problem, and when you create the solution you have more control over it.
\n\nWe asked Whitney about Lean In and the message to working moms. Whitney feels like Sheryl Sandberg’s book represented a huge pendulum swing, and now we’ve moved things back towards the middle which now will move things forward. She also criticizes the original Lean In messaging that women need to be more masculine, especially since our emotional acuity is what makes us better at work. Hiding our femininity does not service our teams or ourselves.
\n\nWe talk about not giving 100% and giving 70% in order to have reserves for ourselves, and Whitney discusses selective mediocrity. Some things require 100% of our attention, but others we can phone it in.
\n\nWe asked Whitney what she wishes everyone working w parents, esp moms, knew, and she said to be aware of the depth of our conflict, and the desire to do it all and be it all. How we carry the mental load and a constant checklist of what our families need. Also to look at people as having moments and being able to take care of themselves during life changes and they will be more invested in the organization over time and thinking about what they can contribute over time.
\n\nSeeing people as people and supporting them through change helps with retention. How do we support people as parents to make sure we have parents on our teams? Having representation at the highest levels of leadership is critical in order to make sure people’s needs are represented. AND if you’re the representative, you stand up for the people you represent. To make change, it’s ok to start small.
\n\nWe talked about the great resignation and how over 3M women have left the workplace, and Whitney asks women to try and keep 1 foot in the door, but also for other people to mentor them back. People will come back to places that allow transparency and acknowledge the balance between parenting and work.
\n\nBook: The Working Mom Blueprint
\nWebsite: ModernMommyDoc.com
\nFacebook: Modern Mommy Doc
\nLinkedin: Whitney Casares
\nTwitter: @modernmommydoc
\nInstagram: @modernmommydoc
Welcome, Don Khouri! Don is a PhD in Human and Organization Systems who works with leaders and individual contributors to build their presence, improve communication, and be more productive. It’s this last area where we’ve asked Don to join us and talk about his book, When to Say YES, to help our listeners learn more about being productive, especially in the workplace.
\n\nDon held a number of roles in the corporate world, mostly at Fidelity Investments, and for the last 12 years he’s been coaching leaders around productivity and leadership skills.
\n\nDon’s definition of productivity is “to be laser focused on your goals, making progress on your goals, and that feeling that comes along with it.” Not to be confused with being busy or overwhelmed.
\n\nWe asked how to differentiate the little things that need to be done vs productivity. As knowledge workers, the requests for our time exceeds the time we have. We need to know when to say yes or no, and if we can decide up front what to say no to, our plate can be more manageable.
\n\nA lot of companies, especially big companies, request a lot of people’s time for meetings. People say yes too often, according to Don’s research, and don’t like to say no, so they waste time in meetings. If the meeting’s agenda isn’t clearly defined with action items, and if you’re being invited as an FYI, do you have to be there?
\n\nDon’s methodology is research-based from conversations with c-level executives around how to evaluate requests for their time. He recommends asking 4 questions before saying yes to something. They are:
\n\nDoes this align with my roadmap? (you need to have one of those...see Real Job Talk [episode 27 on setting career/work goals](-https://realjobtalk.com/27-setting-career-and-work-related-goals) and episode 54 with L’areal Lipkins.)
\n\nWho is asking? (boss, customer….) Be clear on the relationship hierarchy.
\n\nIs it a quality request? Has it been thought through and do you need to be there?
\n\nThere are times when you have to decide to support others on their roadmap so they’ll support you on yours. Maybe you get time back by cutting the amount of time (25 mins vs 30) or having someone else go? Before you go, make sure the agenda is clear and the time will be spent well.
\n\nA nice way to say no is “not now” if the request doesn’t align with your goals right now.
\n\nDon says that in a smaller company, it’s important to focus on the essentials and the company roadmap.
\n\nWe asked Don how a jobseeker can uncover if a company is productive in the interview process. He said to ask, “How do you know if someone is productive?” We chimed in to ask if the interview process is productive or drawn out. We also brainstormed to ask the hows around a job, and how many meetings people in the same role have each day.
\n\nCalendars. They manage us. How do you manage more efficiently? Don’s a fan of time blocking and using color coding to see where you’re spending your time. He has “client time”, “travel time”, “speaking time”, and “catch up”.
\n\n“Eliminate your free time” says Don. WHAT??? What he means is to block your personal time just like you do your work time. “There is no personal time. There is no professional time. There’s just living.”- According to Richard Branson, there is no difference and we should plan our rest and our work.
\n\nWe have to know when to say no to preserve ourselves. And, when we work for others, it can be tough. To help with transparency, you can ask your boss to help you prioritize and make time to work on a new task. The word priority used to be single, meaning to do one thing at a time.
\n\nHow do you set yourself up for success while saying no? There’s a planning fallacy: We think we can get more done than we can do, and we usually underestimate our time. When feeling like you’re not sure how much time it will take, ask someone else to look at it.
\n\nThe best performing teams have guiding principles to hold each other accountable to getting the work done. You can go to the stakeholder and ask them for help in getting productivity back. Praise publicly, critique privately.
\n\nDon shares his favorite productivity tools:
\nAction Tracking: Trello
\nNotes: OneNote
\nTeaming: Slack
The thing to keep in mind is that tools like email and Slack can ruin productivity. You sometimes need to turn them off to focus. Don recommends turning off all notifications.
\n\nFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/donkhouri
\nInstagram: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donkhouri/
\nTwitter: https://twitter.com/donkhouri
\nLinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/donkhouri/
\nWebsite: https://donkhouri.com/
\nDon's book, When to Say YES: The 5 steps to protect your time: https://donkhouri.com/book/
This episode is discussing the complex question of going back into the office as companies are beginning to open up their offices and asking workers to return. We talk about options around going back to work, questions to ask, obstacles, and how to communicate with your team around your availability.
\n\nThe emotions around back to work are complicated. Talk with your manager before making a decision around what to do around back-to-office, no matter how uncomfortable that may be. You need to do what you have to do to keep yourself and your loved ones safe. Assuming that, before you keep your sweats on forever, we want to remind you of the GOOD parts about coming back to the office. Things such as:
\n\nThe casual interactions that happen in the office, even when they're not about work, can help us process the little things that happen in our days. Having a second to connect with an officemate over a broken shower or weird smell during your commute helps us process and get past the little things in life.
\n\nWe’ve found that training is SO much better in person. There is something lost in the online training, conferences, and learning online where folks are multi-tasking vs being in a room together.
\n\nBeing able to ask a question without having to feel like you’re bothering someone is excellent. And being brought into impromptu conversations, meetings, and seeing other people’s work is so helpful in building skills that will help in your career.
\n\nWorking from home can be isolating and can also make people feel more alone. The number of people reporting depression is up, and some people are suffering from the lack of social connection that they get from being in the office. A lot of people want and need more separation between their "home self" and their "work self."
\n\nParents really enjoy the flexibility of working from home because of the constant demands of schools for our presence. We can come and go without our colleagues noticing. The WFH decision as a parent is different, so when working with parents, having compassion and understanding around people’s different needs. The focus needs to be on how well someone is doing their job -- no matter their circumstances -- vs face time in the office.
\n\nBefore you quit, listen to what your company is thinking around back to work. Try it!
","summary":"","date_published":"2021-08-17T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/0176011c-d2ac-49be-8be5-f89db55f153b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":17244237,"duration_in_seconds":1437}]},{"id":"6904efef-cb99-4fb6-8ae3-8671d891c4bb","title":"Episode 67: Overcoming Fear and Doubt in your Career","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/67-overcoming-fear-and-doubt-in-your-career","content_text":"Fear and doubt come in so many forms, including imposter syndrome, self-deprecation, and holding yourself back in other ways. We’re here to talk about how to overcome these things in the workplace.\n\nKat comes from a position of normalizing fear and doubt and accepting them as a part of the human experience. \n\nHow do we recognize fear and doubt? Awareness and acceptance. It’s about “oh -- I recognize this! It's fear and doubt!” and then allowing ourselves to address and combat those thoughts to take away the power we give to them. We have to normalize the human experience and be prepared to move forward despite fear and doubt.\n\nFear can be a good thing, a warning sign to watch out. If everyone is optimistic all the time, sometimes we miss the warning signs that a devil’s advocate or pessimist may bring. Hearing our fears allows us to see what could get in our way, so that we can deal with it.\n\nOur responses to fear and doubt are personalized. Some people thrive on stress and others hide in corners. If you’re avoiding your fears at all costs, what’s that doing to your career? Some people use adrenaline to fuel their work, and others work systematically to avoid that last-minute stress.\n\nToday we’re sharing several coping strategies for fear and doubt.\n\nThe best one we know is first to calm down -- to step away and take a 5-minute break, or at least a few breaths to set your head right. We talk about box breathing (inhale for 4 seconds, hold for 4, exhale for 4, wait for 4), and other breathing techniques.\n\nRemember, feelings aren’t permanent, and acknowledging them takes their power. We also tend to tell ourselves stories that aren’t always true. Ask yourself what you know, acknowledge that you’re feeling fear and doubt and WHY you’re feeling it, and take that power back to help yourself move through it.\n\nLiz likes to ask, “Can I control this?” If the answer is no, you can’t engage with the fear because you have no control over it (e.g., if your company gets acquired), but you can think of best-case scenarios instead of worst-case.\n\nSometimes fear is an indicator of excitement. Ask yourself, “Am I afraid or am I excited?” Often new and/or growth opportunities bring up fear and doubt, but when you can acknowledge that you’re excited about the growth that they will produce, you can lean into those feelings and push yourself towards learning.\n\nWhen something feels huge and scary, break it down into pieces to make it more manageable and plan out how to make it happen.\n\nDo your best, understand your resources, and know that if you aren’t 100% successful, it’s ok. Mistakes are learning opportunities, and when we learn from mistakes we’re actually stronger than if we’re always successful. Think of batting averages or VC wins/losses….nobody hits home runs 100% of the time.\n\nWhen you combat fear and doubt and take risks, REWARD YOURSELF. Give yourself the acknowledgment of getting to the other side. Not necessarily with a designer wardrobe, but maybe an ice cream or a mocha. Make sure to reward yourself with a job well done. Whatever works, do more of it.\n\nWhen you’re in a state of stress, it’s important to sleep, eat well, and take care of yourself. By taking care of yourself, you’ll set yourself up for success.\n\nDecisions need to be aligned to values and what’s close to your heart. Using your must-have list and values to make decisions will help guide you towards opportunities.\n\nLiz introduced a term: name it to tame it. When you can identify the feeling, it loses some of its power. And if you can name it, understand it, and then talk yourself through it, you’re able to move past the fear towards a goal. Liz gave an example of sending her kids to camp vs hiding them in their rooms after an anti-Semitic incident. \n\nWomen disproportionately succumb to fear and doubt, feeling like they can’t go for opportunities. Ask yourself, “what do I need to do now?” or “how can I make this happen?” For every 100 men promoted to manager, 80 women are promoted, according to a study by the consulting firm McKinsey. We’re here to encourage you to move yourself forward.\n\nSometimes we worry about current job performance and the ability to be successful in something new. Often people, especially women, won’t raise their hands if they don’t feel 100% able to take something on. If you’re feeling it 70%, GO FOR IT!\n\nWe think about L’areal Lipkins and her vision boards from Episode 54, what excuses you’re making, and what you can do to make those excuses go away.\n\nMake sure your people, your friends, and the colleagues you hang with are positive, helping, and encouraging. Surrounding yourself with people you admire can help you try new things and having role models helps you to aspire to grow. Liz and Kat use each other as sounding boards to evaluate new decisions.\n\nSometimes trying new things takes practice; find what tools work for you.\n\nRemember, the most successful people have overcome Imposter Syndrome. For proof listen to our episodes with Amy Lewis and Joep Piscaer). Kat is also an incredible coach through fear and doubt. We’re here to you support you in not letting fear and doubt hold you back. You can do hard things!","content_html":"Fear and doubt come in so many forms, including imposter syndrome, self-deprecation, and holding yourself back in other ways. We’re here to talk about how to overcome these things in the workplace.
\n\nKat comes from a position of normalizing fear and doubt and accepting them as a part of the human experience.
\n\nHow do we recognize fear and doubt? Awareness and acceptance. It’s about “oh -- I recognize this! It's fear and doubt!” and then allowing ourselves to address and combat those thoughts to take away the power we give to them. We have to normalize the human experience and be prepared to move forward despite fear and doubt.
\n\nFear can be a good thing, a warning sign to watch out. If everyone is optimistic all the time, sometimes we miss the warning signs that a devil’s advocate or pessimist may bring. Hearing our fears allows us to see what could get in our way, so that we can deal with it.
\n\nOur responses to fear and doubt are personalized. Some people thrive on stress and others hide in corners. If you’re avoiding your fears at all costs, what’s that doing to your career? Some people use adrenaline to fuel their work, and others work systematically to avoid that last-minute stress.
\n\nToday we’re sharing several coping strategies for fear and doubt.
\n\nThe best one we know is first to calm down -- to step away and take a 5-minute break, or at least a few breaths to set your head right. We talk about box breathing (inhale for 4 seconds, hold for 4, exhale for 4, wait for 4), and other breathing techniques.
\n\nRemember, feelings aren’t permanent, and acknowledging them takes their power. We also tend to tell ourselves stories that aren’t always true. Ask yourself what you know, acknowledge that you’re feeling fear and doubt and WHY you’re feeling it, and take that power back to help yourself move through it.
\n\nLiz likes to ask, “Can I control this?” If the answer is no, you can’t engage with the fear because you have no control over it (e.g., if your company gets acquired), but you can think of best-case scenarios instead of worst-case.
\n\nSometimes fear is an indicator of excitement. Ask yourself, “Am I afraid or am I excited?” Often new and/or growth opportunities bring up fear and doubt, but when you can acknowledge that you’re excited about the growth that they will produce, you can lean into those feelings and push yourself towards learning.
\n\nWhen something feels huge and scary, break it down into pieces to make it more manageable and plan out how to make it happen.
\n\nDo your best, understand your resources, and know that if you aren’t 100% successful, it’s ok. Mistakes are learning opportunities, and when we learn from mistakes we’re actually stronger than if we’re always successful. Think of batting averages or VC wins/losses….nobody hits home runs 100% of the time.
\n\nWhen you combat fear and doubt and take risks, REWARD YOURSELF. Give yourself the acknowledgment of getting to the other side. Not necessarily with a designer wardrobe, but maybe an ice cream or a mocha. Make sure to reward yourself with a job well done. Whatever works, do more of it.
\n\nWhen you’re in a state of stress, it’s important to sleep, eat well, and take care of yourself. By taking care of yourself, you’ll set yourself up for success.
\n\nDecisions need to be aligned to values and what’s close to your heart. Using your must-have list and values to make decisions will help guide you towards opportunities.
\n\nLiz introduced a term: name it to tame it. When you can identify the feeling, it loses some of its power. And if you can name it, understand it, and then talk yourself through it, you’re able to move past the fear towards a goal. Liz gave an example of sending her kids to camp vs hiding them in their rooms after an anti-Semitic incident.
\n\nWomen disproportionately succumb to fear and doubt, feeling like they can’t go for opportunities. Ask yourself, “what do I need to do now?” or “how can I make this happen?” For every 100 men promoted to manager, 80 women are promoted, according to a study by the consulting firm McKinsey. We’re here to encourage you to move yourself forward.
\n\nSometimes we worry about current job performance and the ability to be successful in something new. Often people, especially women, won’t raise their hands if they don’t feel 100% able to take something on. If you’re feeling it 70%, GO FOR IT!
\n\nWe think about L’areal Lipkins and her vision boards from Episode 54, what excuses you’re making, and what you can do to make those excuses go away.
\n\nMake sure your people, your friends, and the colleagues you hang with are positive, helping, and encouraging. Surrounding yourself with people you admire can help you try new things and having role models helps you to aspire to grow. Liz and Kat use each other as sounding boards to evaluate new decisions.
\n\nSometimes trying new things takes practice; find what tools work for you.
\n\nRemember, the most successful people have overcome Imposter Syndrome. For proof listen to our episodes with Amy Lewis and Joep Piscaer). Kat is also an incredible coach through fear and doubt. We’re here to you support you in not letting fear and doubt hold you back. You can do hard things!
","summary":"Kat and Liz talk about overcoming fear and doubt in your career and in the workplace.","date_published":"2021-08-03T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/6904efef-cb99-4fb6-8ae3-8671d891c4bb.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":21508236,"duration_in_seconds":1792}]},{"id":"2b7a5bda-c68e-49a8-8749-0392a422a4ba","title":"Episode 66: Being a Woman in Tech with Kat Cosgrove","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/66-being-a-woman-in-tech-kat-cosgrove","content_text":"Welcome to Real Job Talk, Kat Cosgrove, Staff Developer Advocate from Pulumi. We invited Kat to join us to talk about her experience as a technical woman in the technology industry. After a conference, Kat tweeted about being hit on in the virtual hallways, and Liz and Kat Troyer talked about how people really need to be more aware of appropriate behavior in professional settings.\n\nKat started as an engineer, taught at a bootcamp, and then found her way to being a Developer Advocate for the last 2 years.\n\nKat tells us how she’s always asked to talk about the nice parts of being a woman in tech, but was excited to talk with us and pull back the curtain on the ugly parts. The parts we want to change. Now.\n\nFirst we asked Kat to talk about the differences she experienced as a developer vs working in a more public role. She said that as an engineer, the sexism was quieter; she was underpaid, underappreciated, overworked, and often talked over. She had to really stand up for her ideas and make sure she was listened to.\n\nAs a Developer Advocate with 20,000 Twitter followers, she gets inappropriate attention and even hit on a lot, and when she doesn’t respond positively, men have done so far as to threaten her job. Once, after a conferrence, someone messaged Kat on the conference platform to try to hire her because he wanted to hire a \"female.\" Kat turned him down, and also asked him not to refer to her as female because she found it insulting. He flew off the handle, yelled at her, and when she posted redacted screenshots of the interaction, he filed a code of conduct violation with the conference and said she and her followers had threatened him and his family. He also approached her company's HR department. In this case, both the conference and Kat's HR department saw that the hiring manager was inappropriate, and that Kat hadn't done anything wrong.\n\nWe asked Kat what she thinks the aggression she sees is about, and she feels like it might be about how women are conditioned to be docile (she’s not) and men machismo.\n\nKat hears advice for women in tech that they need to be assertive, loud, mean, and aggressive, and we all agreed that’s BS. Why can’t people be themselves? AND why in 2021 are we talking about objectifying people at work?\n\nIt amazed us that Kat’s DMs are “a cesspit” and people feel free to send her inappropriate pictures, comments etc. Would they send those to their boss???\n\nWe asked about people like us, who aren’t as technical as Kat. She believes that men who are sending these inappropriate messages believe all women aren’t technical, and that they always assume that she’s less technical than she is, so she’s constantly proving her value as an engineer, showing both her critical thinking skills while using her soft skills to understand the customers/users of her products and work as a part of a healthy team.\n\nPeople's behaviors can be different in the office with your team vs at a conference with strangers and acquaintances. Kat feels lucky to have been on great teams that have supported her and stood by her if people are disrespecting her. Conferences are social, and Kat has to be “on” for her role, which is different from the office. At this point, she’s quick to file a Code of Conduct violation to do her part in stopping inappropriate behavior.\n\nAt conferences, Kat limits herself to 2 drinks to stay sober and make sure that she stays safe. \n\nKat said that when she calls people out for being inappropriate, she gets told that she’s limiting the places that people can meet potential partners. Not true! If you are interested in someone professionally, get to know them….SLOWLY. Go to lunch. Find out their favorite pastimes. And if there’s chemistry -- AND CONSENT -- you can take things to the next level. It isn't ok to come out of the gate with “I want you. Let’s sleep together.”\n\nKat’s married, but her husband is private, so he doesn’t come up a lot on her social media. She find that many men ONLY back off once she mentions her husband, NOT when she says no. Think about that.\n\nOne time, Kat had booth duty and someone asked for an engineer. She said she was an engineer, and then he proceeded to ask if she knew what a DNS server was, and then explained to her how the internet works. Nobody does that to her male colleagues.\n\nTwitter’s a weird place. How do you become a friend without being a stalker? Kat’s met friends on the internet, and even her husband on the internet! Kat breaks down her hierarchy of Twitter acquaintances vs actually having her phone number. The screwed up thing is that after she said it, she was afraid people would try to find her number (good luck -- she doesn’t answer it). She has 2 Instagrams: a private one that's described as just for friends and one where she sends strangers that ask inappropriately with a big \"No\" sign on it. She feels that people think that she has lewd pictures on the private account, but it's just so she can share things with friends and away from inappropriate internet strangers .\n\nWe all talked about making sure people we work with know we’re married in order to draw a line. Being professional means making people feel comfortable in your presence.\n\nHow does Kat assess new roles for her career? When Kat is looking at a new job, she asks about conflict resolution. It tells a lot about management and the company’s HR. She also asks about politics at work. She feels that companies who won’t discuss politics at work also won’t stand up for critical issues, and that's a sign that women should run.","content_html":"Welcome to Real Job Talk, Kat Cosgrove, Staff Developer Advocate from Pulumi. We invited Kat to join us to talk about her experience as a technical woman in the technology industry. After a conference, Kat tweeted about being hit on in the virtual hallways, and Liz and Kat Troyer talked about how people really need to be more aware of appropriate behavior in professional settings.
\n\nKat started as an engineer, taught at a bootcamp, and then found her way to being a Developer Advocate for the last 2 years.
\n\nKat tells us how she’s always asked to talk about the nice parts of being a woman in tech, but was excited to talk with us and pull back the curtain on the ugly parts. The parts we want to change. Now.
\n\nFirst we asked Kat to talk about the differences she experienced as a developer vs working in a more public role. She said that as an engineer, the sexism was quieter; she was underpaid, underappreciated, overworked, and often talked over. She had to really stand up for her ideas and make sure she was listened to.
\n\nAs a Developer Advocate with 20,000 Twitter followers, she gets inappropriate attention and even hit on a lot, and when she doesn’t respond positively, men have done so far as to threaten her job. Once, after a conferrence, someone messaged Kat on the conference platform to try to hire her because he wanted to hire a "female." Kat turned him down, and also asked him not to refer to her as female because she found it insulting. He flew off the handle, yelled at her, and when she posted redacted screenshots of the interaction, he filed a code of conduct violation with the conference and said she and her followers had threatened him and his family. He also approached her company's HR department. In this case, both the conference and Kat's HR department saw that the hiring manager was inappropriate, and that Kat hadn't done anything wrong.
\n\nWe asked Kat what she thinks the aggression she sees is about, and she feels like it might be about how women are conditioned to be docile (she’s not) and men machismo.
\n\nKat hears advice for women in tech that they need to be assertive, loud, mean, and aggressive, and we all agreed that’s BS. Why can’t people be themselves? AND why in 2021 are we talking about objectifying people at work?
\n\nIt amazed us that Kat’s DMs are “a cesspit” and people feel free to send her inappropriate pictures, comments etc. Would they send those to their boss???
\n\nWe asked about people like us, who aren’t as technical as Kat. She believes that men who are sending these inappropriate messages believe all women aren’t technical, and that they always assume that she’s less technical than she is, so she’s constantly proving her value as an engineer, showing both her critical thinking skills while using her soft skills to understand the customers/users of her products and work as a part of a healthy team.
\n\nPeople's behaviors can be different in the office with your team vs at a conference with strangers and acquaintances. Kat feels lucky to have been on great teams that have supported her and stood by her if people are disrespecting her. Conferences are social, and Kat has to be “on” for her role, which is different from the office. At this point, she’s quick to file a Code of Conduct violation to do her part in stopping inappropriate behavior.
\n\nAt conferences, Kat limits herself to 2 drinks to stay sober and make sure that she stays safe.
\n\nKat said that when she calls people out for being inappropriate, she gets told that she’s limiting the places that people can meet potential partners. Not true! If you are interested in someone professionally, get to know them….SLOWLY. Go to lunch. Find out their favorite pastimes. And if there’s chemistry -- AND CONSENT -- you can take things to the next level. It isn't ok to come out of the gate with “I want you. Let’s sleep together.”
\n\nKat’s married, but her husband is private, so he doesn’t come up a lot on her social media. She find that many men ONLY back off once she mentions her husband, NOT when she says no. Think about that.
\n\nOne time, Kat had booth duty and someone asked for an engineer. She said she was an engineer, and then he proceeded to ask if she knew what a DNS server was, and then explained to her how the internet works. Nobody does that to her male colleagues.
\n\nTwitter’s a weird place. How do you become a friend without being a stalker? Kat’s met friends on the internet, and even her husband on the internet! Kat breaks down her hierarchy of Twitter acquaintances vs actually having her phone number. The screwed up thing is that after she said it, she was afraid people would try to find her number (good luck -- she doesn’t answer it). She has 2 Instagrams: a private one that's described as just for friends and one where she sends strangers that ask inappropriately with a big "No" sign on it. She feels that people think that she has lewd pictures on the private account, but it's just so she can share things with friends and away from inappropriate internet strangers .
\n\nWe all talked about making sure people we work with know we’re married in order to draw a line. Being professional means making people feel comfortable in your presence.
\n\nHow does Kat assess new roles for her career? When Kat is looking at a new job, she asks about conflict resolution. It tells a lot about management and the company’s HR. She also asks about politics at work. She feels that companies who won’t discuss politics at work also won’t stand up for critical issues, and that's a sign that women should run.
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk about some experiences that women have in the job world that aren't in the job description - namely unwanted attention, inappropriate come-ons, and harassment.","date_published":"2021-07-13T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/2b7a5bda-c68e-49a8-8749-0392a422a4ba.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":33961567,"duration_in_seconds":2830}]},{"id":"70249934-a860-419e-b8b3-9ab05ccbc5e2","title":"Episode 65: Telling Your Story","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/65-telling-your-story","content_text":"Check out our new tagline!!! We’re evolving, and while we loved our water cooler, it’s been sitting dormant since March, 2020. Real Job Talk is the podcast for mid-career professionals looking for practical career guidance.\n\nToday we’re talking about vulnerability and telling our stories, inspired by some training Liz has been doing. A great way to get to know someone and to hear how other people have found success is to ask “How did you get to where you are today?”\n\nMany people believe that careers happen to people vs people managing their own careers. We’re here to dispel the myth of the career fairy and to find out how people have figure out where to take their career. How does someone with a marketing degree get to sales operations? What moves did they make?\n\nShowing how others have helped us and how we want to help others can open us up to mentorships and making our own career journey real. Being appropriately vulnerable (read Dare to Lead if you want to learn more) helps us to reflect and help others learn from us.\n\nIf your company has ERGs (employee resource groups), JOIN THEM! You can learn from these other people and their stories - after all they'll have at least 2 things in common with you: the area/theme of the group as well as the fact you’re at the same company. ERGs are great places to meet mentors and role models and to learn your colleagues’ stories, to share yours, can to help you better understand and get ideas about your own career. \n\nSharing how you navigated something can help others -- both career stories and life stories -- and can build mutual respect and bonds. Showing how you got through a tough time shows your coping skills, problem solving, adaptivity, and resiliency.","content_html":"Check out our new tagline!!! We’re evolving, and while we loved our water cooler, it’s been sitting dormant since March, 2020. Real Job Talk is the podcast for mid-career professionals looking for practical career guidance.
\n\nToday we’re talking about vulnerability and telling our stories, inspired by some training Liz has been doing. A great way to get to know someone and to hear how other people have found success is to ask “How did you get to where you are today?”
\n\nMany people believe that careers happen to people vs people managing their own careers. We’re here to dispel the myth of the career fairy and to find out how people have figure out where to take their career. How does someone with a marketing degree get to sales operations? What moves did they make?
\n\nShowing how others have helped us and how we want to help others can open us up to mentorships and making our own career journey real. Being appropriately vulnerable (read Dare to Lead if you want to learn more) helps us to reflect and help others learn from us.
\n\nIf your company has ERGs (employee resource groups), JOIN THEM! You can learn from these other people and their stories - after all they'll have at least 2 things in common with you: the area/theme of the group as well as the fact you’re at the same company. ERGs are great places to meet mentors and role models and to learn your colleagues’ stories, to share yours, can to help you better understand and get ideas about your own career.
\n\nSharing how you navigated something can help others -- both career stories and life stories -- and can build mutual respect and bonds. Showing how you got through a tough time shows your coping skills, problem solving, adaptivity, and resiliency.
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk about the necessity of being vulnerable and telling your story at work.","date_published":"2021-06-29T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/70249934-a860-419e-b8b3-9ab05ccbc5e2.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":21294003,"duration_in_seconds":1064}]},{"id":"7e99c8ea-8d7a-4875-ab80-cba1fd1e32d6","title":"Episode 64: Build Solid Professional Relationships","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/64-build-solid-professional-relationships","content_text":"Today’s episode is about building and deepening professional relationships at work, and small changes that can have a big impact on your work relationships, personal brand, and people’s experience working with you.\n\nTip #1. No ghosting. We discuss the person, who we never know if they are going to show up to our meetings, and therefore we wonder how much they respect our time. The key here is to look at your calendar regularly to avoid double bookings and no-shows, and to let someone know AHEAD OF TIME (vs after the fact) when you won’t make the meeting. Giving someone time back = good. Leaving them staring at a blank screen = not good.\n\nSending the “are you going to make this meeting?” email stinks. That said, we know no-shows happen, and we apologize and move on. That said, “Sorry I missed our meeting, I was in the car.” is BS -- you KNEW you were getting in the car, and you KNEW you had a meeting... you know better, and we’re encouraging yourself to do better.\n\n**Tip #2. Be on time. **Liz worked with SignalFx for years, and a core value of the company was to respect people’s time, so meetings started on time, and calls happened on time. If someone was going to be late, they would send an email, text, or Slack. Nobody was ever left waiting and it was GLORIOUS.\n\n**Tip #3. Keep people posted on your progress. **When you’re assigned a project, the people you work with are going to assume you’re going to meet your deadline. Send an update half way through, let your colleagues know if you forsee any delays, and help people know they can rely on you to update them and meet your deliverables. Yes, it may be uncomfortable to send an update, especially if you’re going to miss a deliverable, but setting expectations is key to building trust at work.\n\nTip #4. Be kind. Thank the IT person who fixes your computer. Say hi when you see someone in the kitchen. Don’t leave a mess for the janitor. Being kind makes you pleasant to work with. If people like working with you, they’re going to give you opportunities. How you behave has a ripple effect in your career. Savvy interviewers are looking for how people treat others around them- it’s important to be kind.\n\nTip #5. Don’t overshare. Giving the gory details of your latest virus or of your breakup is completely unnecessary. Big picture, “I’m sick and can’t come to work” - yes. Every detail of fever, headache, vomit, and malaise - no. \n\nTip #6. Follow Up. Don’t ghost. If someone takes the time to talk with you, reaches out with an idea, and especially if you say something like “I want to work with you” or “I’m going to follow up by this date.” Yes, it may feel uncomfortable to tell someone that you’ve changed your mind, but it’s about respecting someone’s time enough to follow up when you say you will.\n\nKat and Liz agree that they both will bend over backwards for people who show them respect, whereas they put less time and effort into people who don’t show appreciation for our efforts. If you’re respectful to the people who you are working with, they’ll be respectful to you, and you will build more robust professional relationships.","content_html":"Today’s episode is about building and deepening professional relationships at work, and small changes that can have a big impact on your work relationships, personal brand, and people’s experience working with you.
\n\nTip #1. No ghosting. We discuss the person, who we never know if they are going to show up to our meetings, and therefore we wonder how much they respect our time. The key here is to look at your calendar regularly to avoid double bookings and no-shows, and to let someone know AHEAD OF TIME (vs after the fact) when you won’t make the meeting. Giving someone time back = good. Leaving them staring at a blank screen = not good.
\n\nSending the “are you going to make this meeting?” email stinks. That said, we know no-shows happen, and we apologize and move on. That said, “Sorry I missed our meeting, I was in the car.” is BS -- you KNEW you were getting in the car, and you KNEW you had a meeting... you know better, and we’re encouraging yourself to do better.
\n\n**Tip #2. Be on time. **Liz worked with SignalFx for years, and a core value of the company was to respect people’s time, so meetings started on time, and calls happened on time. If someone was going to be late, they would send an email, text, or Slack. Nobody was ever left waiting and it was GLORIOUS.
\n\n**Tip #3. Keep people posted on your progress. **When you’re assigned a project, the people you work with are going to assume you’re going to meet your deadline. Send an update half way through, let your colleagues know if you forsee any delays, and help people know they can rely on you to update them and meet your deliverables. Yes, it may be uncomfortable to send an update, especially if you’re going to miss a deliverable, but setting expectations is key to building trust at work.
\n\nTip #4. Be kind. Thank the IT person who fixes your computer. Say hi when you see someone in the kitchen. Don’t leave a mess for the janitor. Being kind makes you pleasant to work with. If people like working with you, they’re going to give you opportunities. How you behave has a ripple effect in your career. Savvy interviewers are looking for how people treat others around them- it’s important to be kind.
\n\nTip #5. Don’t overshare. Giving the gory details of your latest virus or of your breakup is completely unnecessary. Big picture, “I’m sick and can’t come to work” - yes. Every detail of fever, headache, vomit, and malaise - no.
\n\nTip #6. Follow Up. Don’t ghost. If someone takes the time to talk with you, reaches out with an idea, and especially if you say something like “I want to work with you” or “I’m going to follow up by this date.” Yes, it may feel uncomfortable to tell someone that you’ve changed your mind, but it’s about respecting someone’s time enough to follow up when you say you will.
\n\nKat and Liz agree that they both will bend over backwards for people who show them respect, whereas they put less time and effort into people who don’t show appreciation for our efforts. If you’re respectful to the people who you are working with, they’ll be respectful to you, and you will build more robust professional relationships.
","summary":"Liz and Kat give some real-world tips on building stronger relationships with the people you work with. ","date_published":"2021-06-15T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/7e99c8ea-8d7a-4875-ab80-cba1fd1e32d6.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":30137513,"duration_in_seconds":1506}]},{"id":"af09c2b6-14fe-4b2f-9495-45043820c884","title":"Episode 63: Pivot to Win with Jordan Babineaux","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/63-pivot-to-win-with-jordan-babineaux","content_text":"Welcome to Real Job Talk, Jordan Babineaux! Jordan was an NFL player for 10 years, is a sports broadcaster, runs serveral businesses, is receiving his MBA, and is a true entrepreneur. Jordan joins us to talk about his new book, Pivot to Win, and we ask him all about pivoting towards both success and happiness.\n\nJordan defines leadership as being a facilitator: how do I bring the best out of other people and get different people aligned to the same goal? Jordan sees routine as a key to his success and it helps him to focus and avoid distractions. He sets goals each day in order to move things forward.\n\nJordan thinks a lot about how he starts and ends his day. He starts his day by reading, working out, and praying, yoga, or meditation. He encourages people to start with baby steps of focusing on self, and doing 5 minutes of mindfulness a day. For his wind down, depending on activities with his kids, he leaves behind his tech and gadgets and spends uninterrupted time with his family, and he makes sure to turn off his phone an hour before bed.\n\nChange can mean a shift in identity. You need to recognize it and start getting ready to pivot before you do it, as you can. Jordan started commentating before his 10th season in the NFL.\n\nPivots happen daily between work and home, from one meeting to another…. Jordan creates a quick buffer zone between different activities in order to leave one behind and focus on the next as his best self.\n\nJordan’s pivoting model has 5 steps: \n\n\nRecognize change (planned or unplanned) and how you can leverage your skills to achieve what you want. \nDeclare where you’re going. \nGround zero: see where you are. \nCourage: fight imposter syndrome as you move through the change. \nTransform: act in your purpose.\n\n\nJordan likes Susan Scott’s book called Fierce Conversations about tackling tough challenges and enriching relationships through them.\n\nGrowth mindset is a highly valued skill in the workplace, and Jordan teaches us about having a growth mindset in order to build your career, and how a fixed mindset can hold you back.\n\nWe asked Jordan about preparing to pivot. We talk about being uncomfortable and wanting to leave a place better than you found it. Jordan asks himself these questions: Did I do something for myself? Did I do something for others? Did I do something for the community? These questions ground him in his higher purpose and keep him focused on his goals.\n\nLike Brene Brown, Jordan Babineaux believes leaders should be vulnerable and share their powerful thoughts on vulnerability. That's a key piece of leadership, even though it’s scary. He encourages leaders to step out, be their real self ,and ask their team for help when they need it. All relationships should have reciprocity, and by trusting your people you build a reciprocal relationship.\n\nWhy did Jordan write the book? Because he saw how he was able to grow through change and how his self-awareness helped him through change, and he wanted to share with others. If you mix accountability with self-awareness, you’re more powerful.\n\nJordan knew his football self was an \"alpha male,\" but he went to therapy, learned his triggers, and became a better self to be better in business.\n\nThanks to Jordan Babineaux for joining us on Real Job Talk!\n\nBook : (Pivot to Win:Make The Big Plays In Life, Sports & Business)[https://www.amazon.com/Pivot-Win-Plays-Sports-Business-ebook/dp/B08TB7MZBD\nBook website: (www.pivottowin.com)[https://www.pivottowin.com]\nTwitter: (@jordanbabineaux)[https://twitter.com/jordanbabineaux]\nInstagram: (@jordanbabineaux)[https://www.instagram.com/jordanbabineaux/]","content_html":"Welcome to Real Job Talk, Jordan Babineaux! Jordan was an NFL player for 10 years, is a sports broadcaster, runs serveral businesses, is receiving his MBA, and is a true entrepreneur. Jordan joins us to talk about his new book, Pivot to Win, and we ask him all about pivoting towards both success and happiness.
\n\nJordan defines leadership as being a facilitator: how do I bring the best out of other people and get different people aligned to the same goal? Jordan sees routine as a key to his success and it helps him to focus and avoid distractions. He sets goals each day in order to move things forward.
\n\nJordan thinks a lot about how he starts and ends his day. He starts his day by reading, working out, and praying, yoga, or meditation. He encourages people to start with baby steps of focusing on self, and doing 5 minutes of mindfulness a day. For his wind down, depending on activities with his kids, he leaves behind his tech and gadgets and spends uninterrupted time with his family, and he makes sure to turn off his phone an hour before bed.
\n\nChange can mean a shift in identity. You need to recognize it and start getting ready to pivot before you do it, as you can. Jordan started commentating before his 10th season in the NFL.
\n\nPivots happen daily between work and home, from one meeting to another…. Jordan creates a quick buffer zone between different activities in order to leave one behind and focus on the next as his best self.
\n\nJordan’s pivoting model has 5 steps:
\n\nJordan likes Susan Scott’s book called Fierce Conversations about tackling tough challenges and enriching relationships through them.
\n\nGrowth mindset is a highly valued skill in the workplace, and Jordan teaches us about having a growth mindset in order to build your career, and how a fixed mindset can hold you back.
\n\nWe asked Jordan about preparing to pivot. We talk about being uncomfortable and wanting to leave a place better than you found it. Jordan asks himself these questions: Did I do something for myself? Did I do something for others? Did I do something for the community? These questions ground him in his higher purpose and keep him focused on his goals.
\n\nLike Brene Brown, Jordan Babineaux believes leaders should be vulnerable and share their powerful thoughts on vulnerability. That's a key piece of leadership, even though it’s scary. He encourages leaders to step out, be their real self ,and ask their team for help when they need it. All relationships should have reciprocity, and by trusting your people you build a reciprocal relationship.
\n\nWhy did Jordan write the book? Because he saw how he was able to grow through change and how his self-awareness helped him through change, and he wanted to share with others. If you mix accountability with self-awareness, you’re more powerful.
\n\nJordan knew his football self was an "alpha male," but he went to therapy, learned his triggers, and became a better self to be better in business.
\n\nThanks to Jordan Babineaux for joining us on Real Job Talk!
\n\nBook : (Pivot to Win:Make The Big Plays In Life, Sports & Business)[https://www.amazon.com/Pivot-Win-Plays-Sports-Business-ebook/dp/B08TB7MZBD
\nBook website: (www.pivottowin.com)[https://www.pivottowin.com]
\nTwitter: (@jordanbabineaux)[https://twitter.com/jordanbabineaux]
\nInstagram: (@jordanbabineaux)[https://www.instagram.com/jordanbabineaux/]
May is mental health awareness month, and we want to tell you to take care of yourself. Yes, you hear us talk about self care, but we also want you to know that you’re not alone and that your employer may have resources for you.
\n\nToday we’re talking about toxicity and how to tell if a work environment is healthy or toxic. Liz has a coaching client who is looking for a new role after leaving a toxic culture, and she wants to make sure she ends up in a better place. Of course, the branding on the old company’s website makes it look like a safe and happy place, when in reality, it’s a pretty terrible environment. We dive into how you can explore to see if a company’s environment will be a good place for you.
\n\nReview our job search learning track: https://realjobtalk.com/resources
\n\nWhat is a toxic work environment? It’s different for everyone. A big question to ask yourself, “Do you feel safe at work?”
\n\nKat works with clients to build constructive (aka more effective) cultures. They can be:
\n\nWhat gets in the way of having a constructive culture? Lack of safety. When people don’t feel safe, they are sometimes passive defensive (avoiding tough conversations, protecting themselves, people pleasing/approval seeking, avoiding putting their neck out to protect themselves), aggressive defensive (disagreeing to prove a point, competitive over collaborative), or perfectionistic.
\n\nIf you don’t feel safe in some way, it’s toxic for you.
\n\nHow do you get over a toxic situation? Talk with someone who knows you and learn what triggers you and what you’re not looking for when you make a move. What am I avoiding and what do I need to know to avoid it in the future?
\n\nQuestions to ask to figure out if a place is toxic (during in-person interview process):
\n\nFYI: employment branding is marketing! Companies pay people to write values and make their companies look like great places to work.
\n\nAsk questions around the values. You say your company values learning, so what are some classes you’ve taken in the last year?
\n\nIf someone is shutting down or not answering, probing won’t help.
\n\nYOU own your career and need to ask the questions that will determine if it’s the right place for you. It’s your job to peel back the employment branding work to see what the real work environment is like and is it going to be a good fit for you.
\n\nAssess items off your must-have list and values to determine fit.
\n\nHow does this change in a remote setting? Ask questions like:
\n\nWelcome to Real Job Talk, Mary Abbajay! Mary is a speaker, consultant, and trainer who works with managers and teams to create productive workplaces. She also teaches at the university and post-graduate level, speaks at numerous conferences, and is an active volunteer. Mary is the CEO of the Careerstone Group, and the author of Managing Up: How to Move Up, Win at Work, and Succeed with Any Type of Boss.
\n\nMary wants to make the world a better place by making the workplace a better place. We asked Mary what the biggest challenge has been in the workplace over the last year, and she talks about how teams, managers, and companies weren’t prepared for remote work.
\n\nMany people figured out how to manage up when they were in the office, but were lost when everything went remote. Bosses changed their approaches and life became complicated.
\n\nIn the beginning of the pandemic, Mary taught managers some skills about remote work such as learning how to manage with results and staying connected. She saw that managers didn’t know how to juggle everything and also manage remotely, and she reminds us to have empathy for our managers too.
\n\nManaging up isn’t about sucking up and licking boots. It’s about managing that relationship and making sure it’s working well for you, your boss, and your organization.
\n\nKeys to managing up: understanding the manager has influence over our career, and we can’t change them. People who manage up well understand that adapting how we react to others is an empowering skill.
\n\nYou know The Golden Rule - treat others how you want to be treated. For managing up, try The Platinum Rule -- learn how others like to be treated and then do that. When you give others what they need, it builds trust. Read your boss and how they communicate in order to figure out what will work best for them.
\n\nThings to look for in your boss: are they focused on tasks or the big picture, do they have a fast-paced or slower work style, and do they like sharing a lot of info or just the highlights. Once you’ve assessed their style, you need to decide how you can and want to adjust.
\n\nMary has a conversational template for preferences, priorities and pet peeves….it’s your job to have it with them to build a shared framework for how the relationship will work. LCLD Manage Up HO_2020
\nYou can have a check-in with them using this doc individually or as a team. Learning about them will change the dynamic of how you work together.
How do you get better at managing up? First, have the conversation. Train yourself. See who is successful with the boss, and observe them ask them what works. A little of self-awareness, responsibility, and be willing to share new things grows this skill like any other.
\n\nMary tells a great story about a micromanager boss and how she changed their dynamic by reading her and how to best work with her
\n\nNever assume that your boss knows what you’ve accomplished, are working on, or how valuable you are. It’s on YOU to show them how fabulous you are. Keep them in the loop and stay on their radar. Give until they tell you they don’t want it.
\n\nBig rule: use that cc unless your boss doesn’t like it. The power of the cc is to have your boss know what you’re up to, but also to keep them in the loop so they aren’t caught unaware.
\n\nTalk about work boundaries, your environment, and if and how you need help with flexibility.
\n\nThere are different types of bosses with keys to each:
\n\nThe “Normal” Boss. This category covers most poeple, whether they are introverts or extroverts, and across different management styles, like advancers, harmonizers, and energizers.
\n\nThe keys to an normal but introverted boss are to be proactive, stay on their calendar, tell them what you want to talk about, and give them time to speak. Manage your chatting….it drives them nuts! The key to an normal "evaluator" boss: they love details and accuracy. Learn to love the details and have the facts when you meet with them.
\n\n“Difficult” bosses come in different styles, like micromanagers, impulsive boss, seagull boss, ghost-boss, work-a-holic, and “friend boss.” The key to micromanagers is to over-communicate and show them that you will do things the way they want you to. They need to get what they need.
\n\n“Toxic” basses are those who humiliate, debase, abuse, bully, or are narcissists. Bad people who create toxic work environments.
\n\nThe main key to a toxic boss is to: 1. Get out!
\n\nYou can’t change an asshole, a narcissist, or a bully. Get out. If you find yourself working for a narcissist, you do need to be a kiss ass until you get out, but you have to determine how long you can do that and you protect your professional image. Remember they will raise themselves by pulling you down.
\n\nIn general, managing up is about finding the right strategy that will work with “this boss.”
\n\nMary has a great talk on YouTube about successfully working remotely. She advises to stay on the radar, invite your boss for a virtual, meaningful coffee. Ask your boss their preferred communication channel, and USE IT. Ask for feedback on what’s working well and not well, and ask if they’d like to see you change something, and tell them what you think would help. Stay positive and show some concern for your boss. Stay away from negativity and complaints without actions or suggestions Being a complainer is a drain and will do nothing for your career.
\n\nWe asked about working with someone who is fundamentally different from us (e.g., an extrovert working with an introvert). Mary's advice: bring your best authentic self that the situation calls for and build the muscles that will push you to work with others.
\n\nAs always, you need to manage yourself first before you manage others You are the CEO of your career.
\n\nThe book: Managing Up: How to Move up, Win at Work, and Succeed with Any Type of Boss
\nLinkedIn Course: Managing Up as an Employee
\nTwitter: https://twitter.com/maryabbajay
\nLinkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mary-abbajay-managingup/
\nInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/maryabbajay/
\nFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/maryabbajay
\nCompany: Careerstone Group
Welcome to Real Job Talk to NYU Professors Raúl Sánchez and Dan Bullock. Raúl and Dan teach a the Center for International Studies and write for the Wall Street Journey while also conducting training on international communication for organizations such as The UN and International Student group. Dan and Raúl wrote the book How to Communicate Effectively with Anyone, Anywhere to help people communicate better across geographical, language, and cultural boundaries.
\n\nHow did the book come up? Well, one night over Arby’s, Raúl, Dan, and Raúl’s twin (and book artist) Rod were talking about astronomy, stories, and the overview effect looking at communication when thinking of the planet as a whole vs. as separate places and cultures.
\n\nMany people are working in global teams, and this book came about from the need for Global English, which takes out idioms, slang, and anything that doesn’t translate. Dan and Raúl encourage us to think about how we use language, and how hard it would be to understand something like “it blew my mind” to a second language learner.
\n\nClassically, there are 3 ways to make an argument: appeal to logic, to emotion, and to credibility. These are important to include in a presentation designed to persuide a spectrum of different audiences. You have to think about culture too; 70% of the world operates in a "high-context" culture, one which is more collectivist , where people in a group are assumed to understand implicit information and context shared by the culture. On a global stage, appealing to people in these kinds of cultures, respect is important, as are knowing how to build trust and to disagree. You have to balance your implicit and explicit audiences and lead your audience on a journey through storytelling that will make the audience the hero of the story.
\n\nWe have schemata, or blueprints, for certain words, but our experiences and preferences shape how we experience words and stories. When we help people connect our words to our frameworks, our messages are clearer throughout.
\n\nSpeaking is done to persuade, entertain, or inform. Diction is important, as is making sure you’re connecting with your whole audience. You have to 1. Know your audience 2. Know your purpose 3. Know your message and 4. Know the value of your message. Carrying the value throughout will keep people engaged.
\n\nIn their book, Dan and Raúl talk about mirroring, and we ask about mirroring without losing yourself. It’s really about building natural rapport and connection. It’s about creating a spark that will move ideas and collaboration forwared, as well as fulfillment and service to each other.
\n\nWe move on to networking globally. We talk about building a network in your space, seeking out people across the globe, and then building ideas as you build out your network one person at a time. Carry out networking for discovery more than results. This helps build richer ideas and a truly global outlook. When you network for discovery, it leads to opportunities.
\n\nWhat about when you screw up? Take the blame! Say things like, “I wasn’t clear.” Ask questions, look at body language, and know that the responsibility is on the communicator. Being direct, fact-based, and looking for connection are key to global communication. Other tips are to be explicity, not to imply; and to be aware in all communication around what we are implying. The goal is to clarify and make sure it’s a win-win for everyone in the conversation.
\n\nThis is an important book because it teaches us basic conversation skills that help us communicate globally and build relationships.
\n\nRaúl's and Dan's book: How to Communicate Effectively With Anyone, Anywhere: Your Passport to Connecting Globally
\n\nWelcome back, Chris Gaither! Chris is a leadership coach, writer, and "career pivoter extraordinaire." Chis is somebody who listens to his own energy to make career decisions. Chris has tailored his coaching practice to work with sustainability leaders, an area where he is knowledgable, passionate, and impactful. We are talking with Chris about listening to and following our personal energy in both career decisions and life. Welcome, Chris!
\n\nSince visiting us over a year ago, Chris feels like he took the craziness of 2020 to reflect and build a coaching/leadership practice that he loves. He has divorced, re-partnered, embraced single parenting, written, meditated, exercised, and processed all that the pandemic brought.
\n\nWe asked about Chris’s definition of personal energy. He realized that people would talk about wanting to follow a passion, but didn’t know what their passion was. In studying people, Chris realized that energy was a better gauge to follow.
\n\nEarly in his coaching career, someone asked Chris what makes a successful coaching session. He came up with an answer, although one he now recognizes was BS. She came back with advice for him to listen to his inner reaction to the session. If he ended the conversation with extra energy, it probably meant his client was jazzed as well. In order to follow the energy, we need to tune into it and connect our energy levels to our activities.
\n\nChris has clients do an energy audit of their calendar, printing out a calendar and drawing either up, neutral, or down arrows around each activity to see which activities bring energy and which are depleting. We all have to do some draining activities because we’re adults, but the goal is to do more that fills our energy and less that drains it. The funny thing is that what drains my energy might fill yours, so surround yourself with people who have complementary skills to keep everyone’s energies high.
\n\nWe asked Chris what he says to people who are depleted just by the nature of what's going on in their lives. Chris distinguishes managing energy vs following it in terms of managing and preventing burnout. Paying attention to the signals from your body; that's important to taking care of yourself. Taking things off your plate, outsourcing, asking for help, and seeing what is going well are also key.
\n\nReflecting on energy is helpful in identifying patterns, but how do you make changes once you see what gives you energy? Look at your ratios and add one thing that gives you energy. Try to get to parity and take small steps.
\n\nWe are wired to pick up on other people’s energy or moods. We carry it with us. Leaders’ energy affects their entire organization. Chris noticed that when he was working with sustainability leaders who felt frustrated, he started feeling the same way. When we show up with negative energy, others feel it and push back against it.
\n\nTo give your best, how are you showing up? Are you curious? Empathetic? Passionate? If you come in with positive energy, others will pick up on it and feel connected to you and your mission.
\n\nWe ask Chris what he tells people who are chronically frustrated. His response is to listen and ask what they are missing, what values they want to honor, and dig into what is making them unhappy. If you can structure your day so that you can reward yourself with the “good stuff,”,you can help bring in positivity.
\n\nHow do you assess a new role to see if the position will be fulfilling? Step 1: be clear on what you’re looking for. Step 2: look for roles that allow you to bring your strengths forward in terms of your goals. When people follow their energy, it’s contagious and they bring it with them wherever they go. (See [https://www.greenbiz.com/article/we-recognize-our-purpose-our-thousand-watt-grins](Chris’s article on the "thousand-watt grin" from GreenBiz)).
\n\nChris tells us about his coaching journey and building his practice to focus on sustainability leaders. When he started coaching, he found himself helping people to deal with toxic cultures; this was hard because he couldn’t have an impact on actually improving those cultures. Chris followed the energy to work on his clients’ overall organizational health, working with teams on building healthier environments. Chris also looked at which of the people in his coaching brought him the most energy and saw that they all had sustainability in common. He enjoys working with people whose “why” is tied to the overall health of our world.
\n\nIn his journey, Chris was told that “purpose isn’t an exact address, it’s a neighborhood.” You don’t need to name it, you just need to work towards a moving target that changes with our knowledge and experience.
\n\nLastly, we tap into "values discovery." Brene Brown’s list of values is a great place to start exploring what is most important to us. It’s good to know who we are, and then to explore a company’s written and unwritten values, and how they hold themselves accountable to their values. If their values prevent you from living your values, it’s just not a fit. Make sure you can show up as your authentic self.
","summary":"Liz and Kat welcome back Chris Gaither to talk career pivoting, passion, and energy.","date_published":"2021-04-06T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/9b0643bd-f87d-444c-ab7c-0c275693a96c.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":37646516,"duration_in_seconds":3137}]},{"id":"6bede16c-3b20-447b-800f-68801cafd7b7","title":"Episode 58: Look out for your career as you get started with Bob and Nick Slater","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/58-slater-look-out-above","content_text":"Welcome to our first podcast guests who are a father-son duo, Bob and Nick Slater, authors of the new book _Look Out Above!_This book is aimed at helping people enter the job market, pivot in their careers, and make the most out of the first few years of their careers. Bob is a professor from UNC & Duke, and his son, Nick, is an entrepreneur.\n\nWe ask Bob and Nick about critical workplace skills that they teach; these are actually soft skills, not something that you’re taught in school. The book is aimed at teaching you how to contribute and stand out in the workforce, and Bob and Nick talk about the importance of the soft skills of writing, public speaking, leading, advocating, and presenting; and how these soft skills are the key to professional success. \n\nWe talk about contributing as a key to showing and adding value at an organization. You want to produce and do well in any job you do, even the first jobs in your career path. We talk about the importance of listening and learning, but also contributing when you can add value. We debate learning vs contributing right away, and agree that when you can add a unique contribution, you should do so to show your value to the organization. Ask your boss about their preferences to help you understand the unwritten rules around contribution.\n\nIf you’re quiet in a meeting, you can always follow up with your manager and tell them what you are learning and ask what their expectations are. Put the burden on yourself to know what is expected of you so that you can meet those expectations. Ask questions, show you were listening, talk about where you could contribute, and reiterate your excitement to be there.\n\nWhere can people practice the five key workforce skills? The first place is in summer jobs, internships and non-conventional jobs where you can figure things out. Look for places where you can practice practical business writing; even taking online courses. Join a group like Toastmasters for public speaking, and participate in sports and organizations to acquire leadership skills in addition to taking classes.\n\nBut classes are also useful. If you can, take classes in public speaking, communication, and writing. With any major, if you can find classes on personal finance, pitching ideas, and practical business skills, they will help no matter what your major is.\n\nBob and Nick talk about the ability to pitch ideas, which seems a little “early” for new grads. Young professionals are being asked to do more sooner and junior people are expected to interact with clients and other employees, so being able to comfortably speak to groups and pitch ideas are huge differentiators.\n\nDemonstrating leadership skills are critical if you want to advance. When you’re the CEO of your own career, you find ways to differentiate, and soft leadership skills are the way to do it.\n\nCareer change and growth during Covid has changed a bit. Nick says that Covid shows us that work can change in an instant. It’s critical to be ready for any change or to have the transferable skills to get a new job. He recommends using extra time for networking or building skills through online learning. \n\nWe talk about the humanness of working from home, and helping to use communication skills in the WFH environment.\n\nBob gave some really good advice around long term fit and paying attention to make sure you’re at a company where you want to spend time and can add value. He talks about unwritten rules of a company, observing who gets respect and why, and what differentiates people who are succeeding in the environment from those who aren’t. If you aren’t aligned with the attributes that make people at your company successful, it’s time to find a place where you are aligned. When you’re looking at a job, don’t forget that you are interviewing the company as much as they are interviewing you. \n\nAfter school, pick a job that sounds interesting to you and try it out. If it doesn’t work for you, you can pivot and start over. Don’t get stuck in the first few years of your career; instead, intentionally make a change! Have the courage to explore.\n\nBob and Nick Slater\n\n\nThe Book: (Look Out Above!)[https://bobandnickslater.com]\nTwitter: (@look_out_above)[https://twitter.com/look_out_above]\nInstagram (@lookoutabove.book)[https://www.instagram.com/lookoutabove.book]\nFacebook: (@lookoutabovebook)[https://www.facebook.com/lookoutabovebook]\n","content_html":"Welcome to our first podcast guests who are a father-son duo, Bob and Nick Slater, authors of the new book _Look Out Above!_This book is aimed at helping people enter the job market, pivot in their careers, and make the most out of the first few years of their careers. Bob is a professor from UNC & Duke, and his son, Nick, is an entrepreneur.
\n\nWe ask Bob and Nick about critical workplace skills that they teach; these are actually soft skills, not something that you’re taught in school. The book is aimed at teaching you how to contribute and stand out in the workforce, and Bob and Nick talk about the importance of the soft skills of writing, public speaking, leading, advocating, and presenting; and how these soft skills are the key to professional success.
\n\nWe talk about contributing as a key to showing and adding value at an organization. You want to produce and do well in any job you do, even the first jobs in your career path. We talk about the importance of listening and learning, but also contributing when you can add value. We debate learning vs contributing right away, and agree that when you can add a unique contribution, you should do so to show your value to the organization. Ask your boss about their preferences to help you understand the unwritten rules around contribution.
\n\nIf you’re quiet in a meeting, you can always follow up with your manager and tell them what you are learning and ask what their expectations are. Put the burden on yourself to know what is expected of you so that you can meet those expectations. Ask questions, show you were listening, talk about where you could contribute, and reiterate your excitement to be there.
\n\nWhere can people practice the five key workforce skills? The first place is in summer jobs, internships and non-conventional jobs where you can figure things out. Look for places where you can practice practical business writing; even taking online courses. Join a group like Toastmasters for public speaking, and participate in sports and organizations to acquire leadership skills in addition to taking classes.
\n\nBut classes are also useful. If you can, take classes in public speaking, communication, and writing. With any major, if you can find classes on personal finance, pitching ideas, and practical business skills, they will help no matter what your major is.
\n\nBob and Nick talk about the ability to pitch ideas, which seems a little “early” for new grads. Young professionals are being asked to do more sooner and junior people are expected to interact with clients and other employees, so being able to comfortably speak to groups and pitch ideas are huge differentiators.
\n\nDemonstrating leadership skills are critical if you want to advance. When you’re the CEO of your own career, you find ways to differentiate, and soft leadership skills are the way to do it.
\n\nCareer change and growth during Covid has changed a bit. Nick says that Covid shows us that work can change in an instant. It’s critical to be ready for any change or to have the transferable skills to get a new job. He recommends using extra time for networking or building skills through online learning.
\n\nWe talk about the humanness of working from home, and helping to use communication skills in the WFH environment.
\n\nBob gave some really good advice around long term fit and paying attention to make sure you’re at a company where you want to spend time and can add value. He talks about unwritten rules of a company, observing who gets respect and why, and what differentiates people who are succeeding in the environment from those who aren’t. If you aren’t aligned with the attributes that make people at your company successful, it’s time to find a place where you are aligned. When you’re looking at a job, don’t forget that you are interviewing the company as much as they are interviewing you.
\n\nAfter school, pick a job that sounds interesting to you and try it out. If it doesn’t work for you, you can pivot and start over. Don’t get stuck in the first few years of your career; instead, intentionally make a change! Have the courage to explore.
\n\nBob and Nick Slater
\n\nToday we’re talking about the world of recruiters: who they are and what you can expect from them. We’re deep diving into types of talent professionals to help you navigate your job search in a more educated way.
\n\nRetained. Given money up front to start a search (fees are 25-40% of 1st year compensation). Usually very connected, know their industry, and able to deliver good results. Paid a retainer, some in the middle and some at the end. It’s about quality over quantity and expertise. They have exclusive relationships with their hiring managers and should be able to answer a lot of your questions.
\n\nContingent. Paid when they fill a job, and some employees are 100% commission. It’s a speed game because they only get paid if they get the final candidate in to the client first. Rewards to contingent recruiters don’t come from candidate experience, it comes from results. Often bad recruiter experiences comes from contingent searches because they are focused on fills only.
\n\nRPO/Hourly Outside. Can be hourly or completely outsourced on a monthly basis (retainer/month). How close they are to the internal team depends on the relationship. The benefit of an RPO (Recruitment Process Outsourcing) is that the client can dial it up or back depending on need; this is a long term relationship based on success and knowing each other. For example, Liz’s company acts as an extension of the recruiting team with internal emails and following/making internal processes.
\n\nInternal Recruiters. These are the people who work only for one company. They build employer brand, build and follow internal processes, and have deep relationships with hiring managers. These people can answer all of your questions -- they know the benefits, culture and hiring team. They will probably work with you once you’re hired, so be nice!
\n\nHow do you know who you’re talking to? ASK! Ask their role, their relationship to the company, and what they know and don’t know.
\n\nOther recruiting roles: Recruiting managers and leads. Coordinators who do the scheduling. There may be sourcers who are all about finding the right talent for the job. There are also diversity professionals trying to bring more diversity to the company.
\n\nThe lead recruiter is usually your touch person -- they know where things are and it’s ok to check in with them. The more you tell them about where your search is, the more they can help push things along.
","summary":"Liz and Kat break down the different types of recruiters you may encounter in your career.","date_published":"2021-03-09T09:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/b1daddaa-b5f6-4e7d-9bbc-aea5faceef77.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":21409328,"duration_in_seconds":1784}]},{"id":"0dc39194-713d-495b-875f-2532ed446124","title":"Episode 56: Real Leadership with Jennifer Mackin","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/56-real-leadership-with-jennifer-mackin","content_text":"LIZ AND KAT ARE OFFERING CAREER COACHING!!! Our intro rate is $100/hr for BOTH of us! Email realjobtalk@gmail.com to schedule a 1:1 unrecorded session.\n\nWelcome Jennifer Mackin, author of the book Leaders Deserve Better, and a trainer who helps managers become better leaders. Jennifer considers herself a change agent dedicated to helping businesses and leaders be change agents for the greater good. \n\n2020 forced leaders to reflect and change, which became a tough opportunity for Jennifer. She had to pivot from face-to-face to virtual, and has had to embrace change.\n\nWe asked Jennifer what leadership means to her. She thinks of leaders whose job is to develop and lead others. She refers to people who others listen to as influencers, but in her work, she is working with people who have direct management responsibilities over other employees.\n\nJennifer found that most people are put into leadership roles without any leadership training, and then they struggle to lead effectively. What causes people to struggle? They don’t know how to coach, manage performance and do regular work with their team. BUT, the issue is also in the c-suite where leaders aren’t tying activities like people management and growth into business goals. Not only are they not training their leaders to lead, they’re not helping their people grow or tying their entire team into the success of the business.\n\nLeaders of leaders need to drive an environment of learning, practice and reinforcement within our organizations. Leaders tend to delegate and be task oriented, but not think about overall succession, people and skill growth. Sharing new knowledge and skills, especially in a virtual environment, is the key to showing how effective employees are in the growth in the company.\n\nBefore raising your hand for an official leadership role, take a look at who you are, what drives you, and understand the requirements of the role within your organization. After knowing what roles are possible, create a development plan for yourself to get yourself to where you need to be. Talk with your current leaders to ask them what to do to get to where you want to go- drive your career!\n\nLook at others who have grown into leadership roles before you- what did they do? Talk to people, get feedback on what you need to do as well as get an understanding of what you will need to do to move where you want to go.\n\nWhat does Jennifer see in the best teams she works with? What competencies go across organizations? Besides being strategic and ethical, the best leaders know how to drive strategy through and across their teams. They care about their people and understand how to tie business needs with people needs and people growth. It’s complex, and that’s why people like Jennifer are so important for leaders to learn from. Caring about the people and business and tying them together, and fitting all of the pieces together, celebrating differences, is what the strongest leaders do. \n\nIn interviews, when looking for good leadership at a company, see how you’re treated, how they talk about the team, and ask: what skills are valued in each role and each group at the company? Do they care about your questions and do they want to learn about you? Intentionality is key - we’re all learning, but if someone’s intentions are good and they admit what they’re working on, they have leadership potential.\n\nBeing present in conversations is so important, as is asking how someone is doing, or mentioning something they talked about before. Being seen by your leadership is a big key in happiness and engagement at work. As a leader, thinking about the combination of wellness, productivity and outcomes is key.\n\nWhen you’re trying to move in your organization, you don’t want to be a suck up, and it’s important to document your successes, celebrate others, and make sure your leader knows what you’ve contributed and where you want to go. Getting a mentor is important to driving your career and can help you understand what the next stage may look like. A mentor can be outside of your company or inside. It’s not automatic - it’s a relationship that gets built over time based on trust.\n\nWhen the mentee has the intention to get the most out of the relationship possible, the relationship can really bloom. Being a proactive mentee allows you to learn the most from your mentor.\n\nDuring the pandemic, the strongest leaders have increased communication, asking people 1:1 what they need, talking with the team about the business and growth, and constantly taking new information and asking how that will affect their people. Getting people involved in the changes involving business direction and encouraging transparency and how changes effect everyone is important to long term success. \n\nWebsite: jennifermackin.com\nTwitter: @jmackin70\nLinkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferolivermackin/\nInstagram: www.instagram.com/jennifer.mackin.18/\nFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheOliverGroup","content_html":"LIZ AND KAT ARE OFFERING CAREER COACHING!!! Our intro rate is $100/hr for BOTH of us! Email realjobtalk@gmail.com to schedule a 1:1 unrecorded session.
\n\nWelcome Jennifer Mackin, author of the book Leaders Deserve Better, and a trainer who helps managers become better leaders. Jennifer considers herself a change agent dedicated to helping businesses and leaders be change agents for the greater good.
\n\n2020 forced leaders to reflect and change, which became a tough opportunity for Jennifer. She had to pivot from face-to-face to virtual, and has had to embrace change.
\n\nWe asked Jennifer what leadership means to her. She thinks of leaders whose job is to develop and lead others. She refers to people who others listen to as influencers, but in her work, she is working with people who have direct management responsibilities over other employees.
\n\nJennifer found that most people are put into leadership roles without any leadership training, and then they struggle to lead effectively. What causes people to struggle? They don’t know how to coach, manage performance and do regular work with their team. BUT, the issue is also in the c-suite where leaders aren’t tying activities like people management and growth into business goals. Not only are they not training their leaders to lead, they’re not helping their people grow or tying their entire team into the success of the business.
\n\nLeaders of leaders need to drive an environment of learning, practice and reinforcement within our organizations. Leaders tend to delegate and be task oriented, but not think about overall succession, people and skill growth. Sharing new knowledge and skills, especially in a virtual environment, is the key to showing how effective employees are in the growth in the company.
\n\nBefore raising your hand for an official leadership role, take a look at who you are, what drives you, and understand the requirements of the role within your organization. After knowing what roles are possible, create a development plan for yourself to get yourself to where you need to be. Talk with your current leaders to ask them what to do to get to where you want to go- drive your career!
\n\nLook at others who have grown into leadership roles before you- what did they do? Talk to people, get feedback on what you need to do as well as get an understanding of what you will need to do to move where you want to go.
\n\nWhat does Jennifer see in the best teams she works with? What competencies go across organizations? Besides being strategic and ethical, the best leaders know how to drive strategy through and across their teams. They care about their people and understand how to tie business needs with people needs and people growth. It’s complex, and that’s why people like Jennifer are so important for leaders to learn from. Caring about the people and business and tying them together, and fitting all of the pieces together, celebrating differences, is what the strongest leaders do.
\n\nIn interviews, when looking for good leadership at a company, see how you’re treated, how they talk about the team, and ask: what skills are valued in each role and each group at the company? Do they care about your questions and do they want to learn about you? Intentionality is key - we’re all learning, but if someone’s intentions are good and they admit what they’re working on, they have leadership potential.
\n\nBeing present in conversations is so important, as is asking how someone is doing, or mentioning something they talked about before. Being seen by your leadership is a big key in happiness and engagement at work. As a leader, thinking about the combination of wellness, productivity and outcomes is key.
\n\nWhen you’re trying to move in your organization, you don’t want to be a suck up, and it’s important to document your successes, celebrate others, and make sure your leader knows what you’ve contributed and where you want to go. Getting a mentor is important to driving your career and can help you understand what the next stage may look like. A mentor can be outside of your company or inside. It’s not automatic - it’s a relationship that gets built over time based on trust.
\n\nWhen the mentee has the intention to get the most out of the relationship possible, the relationship can really bloom. Being a proactive mentee allows you to learn the most from your mentor.
\n\nDuring the pandemic, the strongest leaders have increased communication, asking people 1:1 what they need, talking with the team about the business and growth, and constantly taking new information and asking how that will affect their people. Getting people involved in the changes involving business direction and encouraging transparency and how changes effect everyone is important to long term success.
\n\nWebsite: jennifermackin.com
\nTwitter: @jmackin70
\nLinkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/jenniferolivermackin/
\nInstagram: www.instagram.com/jennifer.mackin.18/
\nFacebook: www.facebook.com/TheOliverGroup
Quitting is an art- there’s a right way (leave with your head high and relationships strong) and a wrong way (think bull in a china shop or loud ranting with everyone breathing a sigh of relief when you’re gone) to quit your job. In this episode, Liz and Kat walk you through the delicate process of quitting, how to deal with a counter offer, and how to handle your final days at a job.
\n\nThis episode was inspired by a friend of Kat’s who was quitting his job and was ready to give his almost-ex irrefutable.
\nHave your “quitting notice” written.
\nSet the goal of staying professiinonal and go out with respect.
To break it down:
\n\nYou don’t want your boss to hear that you’re leaving through the rumor mill. Make sure to tell them first. It may be hard to keep the news from your work bestie, especially if everyone’s talking about leaving. The “I’m quitting, these are my last 2 weeks” conversation should be with you and your boss first.
\n\nSet up the meeting with your boss asap after signing your offer. Give your 2 week notice as soon as you can meet with your boss. Tell them you need to talk for a few minutes, and you can even tell them it’s urgent. If it can’t happen, you can go up the chain, but give every opportunity to quit to your direct manager. Try to do it in person, but if they force you to email it, you can do that, but don’t prolong the quitting moment.
\n\nWe role play the conversation to make sure it stays professional and make sure to remove the emotion. Remember, you never know when you’re going to run into these people again in your career, so you want to make a professional lasting impression.
\n\nCounter offers: we’re anti 99% of the time. Why can you only get things on your way out vs when you ask as an active employee? Usually underlying issues won’t be fixed with a counter offer. Once you’ve given notice once, an employer can question your loyalty, and employees are shown to leave within 1-2 years anyway. Trust issues and resentment build up on both sides, and you can potentially burn bridges.
\nIf you go looking for another offer to get a pay raise, DO NOT accept the other offer if you’re really looking for a counter.
See this article for more.
\n\nFact vs emotional reason for quitting. For example, “the commute is 2 hours less/day”- fact vs “you’ve been a bad manager and blown off our meetings”- emotional. “Our processes are backwards” is subjective. Stick to facts that can’t be refuted since you’re trying not to ruffle feathers on your way out. Keep those bridges intact.
\n\nIf your HR team does an exit interview, if you sense they are open, that is the place where you can share in a constructive way to help make change. Let them guide the interview and answer the questions you’re asked. While it’s confidential, remember that what you share can be shared with your almost-past boss etc, so make sure you’re fact based and constructive knowing it could be repeated.
\n\nYour resignation letter: short, factual, “my last day is”, and thank you. That’s it.
\n\nAfter you quit….the longest last 2 weeks ever. Work with your boss on the announcement and transition plan, but be clear that you want to let people know and hand off work asap. Keep reminding yourself to stay classy and not leave dead bodies on your way out. Talk with your boss about the “party line” whether the decision was theirs or yours.
\n\nDo a good job transitioning. Clean out your desk. Clear your computer. Make yourself available to the people taking over your work- tell them to call or email you with questions. Building that bridge brings comfort to the team members you’re leaving.
\n\nAnother note- no poaching! It may breach a non-compete, but also goes along with the go out classy rule. Unless your company is going bankrupt, don’t reach out to poach people.
\n\nFollow our guidance, and reach out for coaching, but remember to walk out on your last day proud of how you ended things and ensuring that doors are open for future opportunities. Good luck!
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk about quitting.","date_published":"2021-02-09T07:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/b81bb3db-85ba-4bac-a398-8f1f9826425b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":24909607,"duration_in_seconds":2075}]},{"id":"0b8e22e5-12d1-404a-b310-4eb280a6c6b7","title":"Episode 54: Envisioning 2021 with L’areal Lipkins","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/54-envisioning-2021-with-lareal-lipkins","content_text":"Welcome to L’areal Lipkins, a sales trainer and expert in goal setting, vision boards, and how to make your goals a reality by adopting the right plan and mindset.\n\nL’areal does NOT believe in SMART goals (specific, measurable, attainable, relevant and timebound) , and we get right into it asking about her approach to goal setting. L’areal is a “recovering SMART goals user,” and she pivoted to her CLARITY method when she saw clients coming back year after year with the same goals. CLARITY stands for:\n\nC- crystal clear\nL- linked to a bigger goal (like your company’s or your boss’ or a step towards a bigger personal goal)\nA- actionable\nR- realistic\nI- important\nT- time bound\nY- tied to your core “why”\n\n“Your why is irrelevant unless you know WHY your why is important.” You have to go deep to figure out why something is important to you to find your emotional connection to your goal in order to make the sacrifices needed to make it happen.\n\nIf you don’t have the vision of where you are going, you don’t have enough oomph behind your why. We talk about flexibility, and how you need to adjust goals and not have a 30 year plan. Where do I want to be 1-2 years from now vs 30 years from now. For L’areal, she knew she wanted to own her own business, but she didn’t know what form that would take.\n\nWe talk about how important it is for leaders to bring in their people to co-create goals and make sure everyone’s goals feed into the company goals to bring the company to achieve success.\n\nWe talk about sales goals and aligning sales and personal career goals. Sales goals are usually tied to revenue, but we talk about how a certain revenue target will help them to achieve personal goals- whether that is a new house, a working spouse or other personal goals. We then go bigger picture and learn about other people’s compelling “why” around their career driver.\n\nL’areal wrote a book called A Woman With Vision. She instructs people to divide their yearly goals into quarters, and then uses her CLARITY method to dive deeply into what each goal looks like and what it will take to get there. Focusing on quarterly goals helps L’areal’s clients prevent being overwhelmed, and allows them to break goals into achievable chunks.\n\nHaving a visual representation in front of you helps you stay focused, but also having the whole team share their goals helps teams get to know each other. For example, 4 people on a team L’areal worked with wanted to buy a house, so they brought in a home buying expert to help….\n\nIncreasing transparency, especially when times are tougher, is hard as a leader, but it helps keep the team aligned and help everyone get on the same page to success. Especially if there are discrepancies between different teams at a company, helping everyone understand each other’s needs and struggles allows everyone to set goals that lead everyone to success.\n\nGratitude is a powerful mindset tool, and when we need to shift our goals (like we all did in 2020), we look to gratitude and our core beliefs to reset or adjust our goals. Want a tool to help? Here's L'areal's free tools page. \n\nWant to changed a fixed mindset? Remind yourself (like L’areal does with her 4 year old), “I can figure it out!\" Believing in yourself and your ability to overcome will help you move to a growth mindset and get rid of your negative beliefs.\n\nHow do I shift my mindset? We think 55-75,000 thoughts a dayand 80% of them are negatively pre-dispositioned, so if we’re not actively working on positivity, we could allow those negative thoughts to take over. We have to identify our negative thoughts and then find the positive, rooted in truth and then repeat it as an affirmation. It takes practice, but eventually you can do it in real time.\n\nL’areal loves the image of a caterpillar turning into a butterfly, shedding old skins to grow into our new selves.\n\nShe also talks about Vision, Goals, and Rewards. A goal is not a handbag -- a goal is something that moves you forward and a reward is something you can get when a goal is met. Rewarding yourself is important to avoid burnout and grind. \n\nAnother important thing about setting goals that align with your vision is to identify and make a plan for any potential roadblocks. Roadblocks often derail us from our goals, but if we have a plan for us, we can overcome them with ease.\n\nL'areal's web site: A Woman with Vision\nL'areal Lipkin on Instagram: @awomanwithvision\nL'areal Lipkin's book: A Woman With Vision","content_html":"Welcome to L’areal Lipkins, a sales trainer and expert in goal setting, vision boards, and how to make your goals a reality by adopting the right plan and mindset.
\n\nL’areal does NOT believe in SMART goals (specific, measurable, attainable, relevant and timebound) , and we get right into it asking about her approach to goal setting. L’areal is a “recovering SMART goals user,” and she pivoted to her CLARITY method when she saw clients coming back year after year with the same goals. CLARITY stands for:
\n\nC- crystal clear
\nL- linked to a bigger goal (like your company’s or your boss’ or a step towards a bigger personal goal)
\nA- actionable
\nR- realistic
\nI- important
\nT- time bound
\nY- tied to your core “why”
“Your why is irrelevant unless you know WHY your why is important.” You have to go deep to figure out why something is important to you to find your emotional connection to your goal in order to make the sacrifices needed to make it happen.
\n\nIf you don’t have the vision of where you are going, you don’t have enough oomph behind your why. We talk about flexibility, and how you need to adjust goals and not have a 30 year plan. Where do I want to be 1-2 years from now vs 30 years from now. For L’areal, she knew she wanted to own her own business, but she didn’t know what form that would take.
\n\nWe talk about how important it is for leaders to bring in their people to co-create goals and make sure everyone’s goals feed into the company goals to bring the company to achieve success.
\n\nWe talk about sales goals and aligning sales and personal career goals. Sales goals are usually tied to revenue, but we talk about how a certain revenue target will help them to achieve personal goals- whether that is a new house, a working spouse or other personal goals. We then go bigger picture and learn about other people’s compelling “why” around their career driver.
\n\nL’areal wrote a book called A Woman With Vision. She instructs people to divide their yearly goals into quarters, and then uses her CLARITY method to dive deeply into what each goal looks like and what it will take to get there. Focusing on quarterly goals helps L’areal’s clients prevent being overwhelmed, and allows them to break goals into achievable chunks.
\n\nHaving a visual representation in front of you helps you stay focused, but also having the whole team share their goals helps teams get to know each other. For example, 4 people on a team L’areal worked with wanted to buy a house, so they brought in a home buying expert to help….
\n\nIncreasing transparency, especially when times are tougher, is hard as a leader, but it helps keep the team aligned and help everyone get on the same page to success. Especially if there are discrepancies between different teams at a company, helping everyone understand each other’s needs and struggles allows everyone to set goals that lead everyone to success.
\n\nGratitude is a powerful mindset tool, and when we need to shift our goals (like we all did in 2020), we look to gratitude and our core beliefs to reset or adjust our goals. Want a tool to help? Here's L'areal's free tools page.
\n\nWant to changed a fixed mindset? Remind yourself (like L’areal does with her 4 year old), “I can figure it out!" Believing in yourself and your ability to overcome will help you move to a growth mindset and get rid of your negative beliefs.
\n\nHow do I shift my mindset? We think 55-75,000 thoughts a dayand 80% of them are negatively pre-dispositioned, so if we’re not actively working on positivity, we could allow those negative thoughts to take over. We have to identify our negative thoughts and then find the positive, rooted in truth and then repeat it as an affirmation. It takes practice, but eventually you can do it in real time.
\n\nL’areal loves the image of a caterpillar turning into a butterfly, shedding old skins to grow into our new selves.
\n\nShe also talks about Vision, Goals, and Rewards. A goal is not a handbag -- a goal is something that moves you forward and a reward is something you can get when a goal is met. Rewarding yourself is important to avoid burnout and grind.
\n\nAnother important thing about setting goals that align with your vision is to identify and make a plan for any potential roadblocks. Roadblocks often derail us from our goals, but if we have a plan for us, we can overcome them with ease.
\n\nL'areal's web site: A Woman with Vision
\nL'areal Lipkin on Instagram: @awomanwithvision
\nL'areal Lipkin's book: A Woman With Vision
Welcome Jason Levin, founder and CEO of Ready, Set, Launch. We’re talking with Jason about launching a job search in a virtual world.
\n\nJason grew up with a happy family whose lives changed dramatically when his father lost the only job he had ever had in New York's garment district. Suddenly Jason and his brothers were the kids getting free lunch in school, and the family was struggling. Jason was always the person who would help with mock interviews and resume review in school; later his MBA program asked him to be a coach, and that became the foundation of his career.
\n\nJob searching has always been a mindset game, but with Covid, it’s about maintaining the mindset to get through the day -- and to deal with the job uncertainty as well as career and financial uncertainty.
\n\nJason tells people to follow their energy; for him, he needs to laugh, for someone else, it might be sports. He wants people to approach change from a place of strength vs a place of fear. His advice is to work through roadblocks to focus on the good behaviors you do have. We discuss avoiding things that suck your energy in order to build your energy towards the positive.
\n\nHe distinguishes between people who help you and people who mean well... Identifying the people who help vs the ones who project onto you without help allows you to know who to reach out to, and who will build you up.
\n\nJason reminds his clients that “Waiting is the Hardest Part." You can do things while you wait, but waiting is part of the process. It’s easy to tell yourself stories while you wait -- to imagine what is going on or why the process is taking a long time; but instead, keep trucking and don’t try to figure out why things are dragging. Your goal is the next job, and spending time wondering doesn’t help you towards your goal.
\n\nReady, Set, Launch is Jason’s career coaching business. He uses the principles of consumer marketing for outplacement, resume writing and speaking. He helps people go from point A to point B. He sees career decisions as purchasing decisions -- a two sided marketplace.
\n\nOne service Jason offers is Outplacement, which is a benefit given to people when they are laid off to help them transition to their next role. If you get this benefit, USE IT! It’s paid for by your current employer to help you find your next position, and it is free career coaching.
\n\nWe asked Jason what he is telling people about job search after a layoff during this pandemic. His first piece of advice was to write out what gives you energy, strength, and joy, and then to practice articulating those strengths. He looks at industry, employer, and role around where you want to go, and having the pitch that addresses all three.
\n\nOnce you define what you want to do, then get your pitches in order. Number 1 rule: no complaining. Number 2: know how much time you have to spend looking and hold yourself to it. Number 3: Lists are your friend; they help you stick to your plan.
\n\nJason tells people to put together a list of people who have been most influential in your career and reach out to ask advice, which may just lead to jobs (vs asking for jobs, which may lead to advice).
\n\nNetworking will get your resume seen faster and by the right people, more than "posting and praying." Jason says to spend the majority of your time networking, and then when you see a posting, think of who you can network with to get close to the job. If you have 60-70% of the job spec, you need to apply by seeing if you know someone at the company.
\n\nEmployee referral programs are awesome, so are Diversity/Equity/Inclusion officers. Employees want to refer you and get the bonus, and DEI want to hire you because it helps their numbers. These folks are your ins!
\n\n“Your life is not in danger because of this interview." This is what Jason tells people who need to psych themselves up for interviews. Be yourself and find people you like and who like you. Do your homework so you feel good about you and you feel prepared. Be ready to answer what’s driving you to want to work in this job at this company. You have to want the job; there are plenty of people who do.
\n\nWe asked Jason about Covid’s impact on job searches. Industries like hospitality have been hard hit, and also the hiring process across many industries seems to take longer. People with more experience adding value when they can articulate their value, but new grads with less experience sometimes struggle when entering this kind of job market.
\n\nJason's site: [readysetlaunch.net](readysetlaunch.net)
\nJason's email
Dr. David Campt is a national expert on inclusion and intergroup dialogue. David has worked with groups from large corporations to the White House, and has appeared on The Daily Show. He speaks about about how we talk with each other, and how to help people come together. In 4th grade, David had a teacher tell him that “People are more alike than they are different,” and in his critical work, David shows audiences how to use dialogue in order to connect and come together.
\n\nDavid tells us about how the world has changed over the last 20 years. When he was in the White House in 1998, black people took on the unpaid job of trying to talk to white people about racism. Now black people are saying, “You do the work -- it’s not up to us.” And 55% of white people think that racism experienced by white people is just as important as the racism experienced against black people. The work isn't helping people to understand the importance of that question, it's to hel the 45% of people who do believe racism is an issue to talk with the 55% who do not -- that's the basis of David’s important work.
\n\nDavid encourages conversation, and has been inspired by the growth of the ally movements across all areas.
\n\nWe talked about "race method"and "reach method": in difficult conversations, in order to be productive, you want to do two things up front. First, move from facts and beliefs to experiences; and secondly, ABC: "Agree Before Challenging," meaning establish common ground before inviting people to new thinking.
\n\nRACE is David's acronym for racial conversations, and REACH is for other conversations.
\nR - Reflect (get centered) and think of stories you want to tell.
\nA - Ask questions (vs attacking).... ask about their experience (vs their beliefs) that inspires their point of view.
\nC - Connect; find something you can agree with in their position and tell a story about that.
\nE - Expand their view... by telling another story where you had a different experience
R - Reflect
\nE - Enquire (British spelling)
\nA - Agree
\nC - Confess
\nH - Harmonize
David wants people to invite each other to a place of new thinking vs coercing or forcing them to it. David’s methods have people first coming to agreement before they try to teach people to think differently. According to David, people on the Left are “too woke” and treat the people on the Right like they don’t know anything. In David’s book, Compassion Transforms Contempt, he talks about moving the country forward by treating each other with more compassion, which is more persuasive.
\n\nCompassion is key to personal change. Moving towards something vs fighting something you hate is so much more effective. If you want to be effective, finding common ground is a good thing.
\n\nThese are skills to practice, but you have to want to do it.
\n\n2020 has been an eye-opening year in terms of race. We’ve opened our eyes to experiences like George Floyd’s gruesome murder, unconscious bias, and mircoaggressions (or as David says, Inadvertent Dignity Violations), and now it’s up to each of us to do better. David’s tips can be helpful in this.
\n\nMoving on to our work lives -- the key to building and maintaining diverse teams? We have to support people in a reasonable way so that they can be themselves.
\n\nWe asked about David’s approach to handling unconscious bias and microaggression situations with peers and leaders at work, and how to handle them as a bystander. David’s #1 strategy is to say to either person, not that one person is wrong or even that you're offended. Instead, David recommends: “When [the thing you're bringing up] was said, I felt weird.” This phrase doesn’t make presumptions about how someone should feel, or show malicious intent, but instead invites people to talk. This can work with both peers and leaders, and can be followed with, “I don’t believe you intended that” or “I’m not sure how the other person felt.”
\n\nHow are companies improving diversity hiring? David talked about removing diversity markers from resumes to promote equality. He also talked about the importance of employee resource groups. To make these effective, top level management must say they are important, and must train people to be mentors and allies outside of their own group. Lastly, David believes in high quality unconscious bias training that shows that everyone is subject to biased thinking. We feel more comfortable when we understand that everyone has bias. Employee surveys are are an important too, and are important, but looking at the top level numbers can be misleading; instead, breaking down the data by group can allow up to come to a deeper understanding to create a workplace that works for everyone.
\n\nFor executives to get DE&I sensitive, they may need private coaching, because they can’t be completely honest about their own biases, struggles and concerns in front of employees.
\n\nExecutives also need to support diverse hires in building up their skills in order to help those colleagues feel welcome, Telling people the potential you see in them, and supporting them, can help them reach that potential from a place of empathy. If a manager hires a person to diversify the team, but there is a skills gap that can be learned, it is up to the manager to empower the person to fill that skills gap in order to help them succeed.
\n\nWhat about creating roles for diverse candidates with relevant experience? David’s a believer in that strategy, because diverse teams make companies and products better. As long as it’s a quality role for a relevant candidate, be creative to add diversity.
\n\nAs we closed out the podcast, we asked the hard question about healing our nation. David encourages people to find ways to come together, and reach out to people who voted differently and find that common ground. Own up to the transgressions we made to the other side, and admit your part in the polarization. He asks us to reach out to friends with different opinions and ask questions and not put yourself in a position to argue. Learn and understand if you can handle it, and call out different viewpoints. You can start with figuring out something we all want, or where we all want to go, and figure out how we can come together to recognize that shared value of completing this project together.
\n\n“If a plane is going to fly, it needs a left wing and a right wing.”
\n\nDavid Campt's website: davidcampt.com
\nDavid on Twitter: @thedialogueguy
\nWhite Ally Toolkit: whiteallytoolkit.com
This week we welcome Joep Piscaer, who has grown his career by moving up the ranks in a technical organization, from sys admin to CTO, and now is an independent consultant focused on creating content in the devops space.
\n\nThroughout his career, Joep has struggled with Imposter Syndrome, and despite numerous indications to the contrary, he has had to work on how to control his impulses to hold himself back. We invited him on for this very open conversation to help listeners understand that imposter syndrome can happen to any and all of us.
\n\nJoep’s definition of Imposter Syndrome is “the feeling that you’re not as good as the people around you”. He realized that he compares his life with other people’s Instagram lives, and has learned how to use his imposter syndrome to drive success. Imposter Syndrome rears its head when you’re asked to be an authority. Joep knows that when he’s doing something new, he’s going to feel that Imposter voice.
\n\nWhen he hears that Imposter message in his head, Joep now leans in to do the thing. So if he’s worried about going to a conference, he goes. And then he writes down all the compliments he gets and reads them to fight off the negativity. His hope is that by reading positivity, it will combat the negativity.
\n\nJoep teaches about giving compliment; they’re not all created equal! Make compliments specific, timely, and show that you’re paying attention to the person you’re complimenting. We compare Joep’s compliments to the Nurtured Heart parenting approach, both to show people when they are seen., but also, if you don’t mean it, don’t say it. False compliments are the worst!
\n\nLearning to give compliments helps with receiving them, but sometimes it’s not easy. Joep still struggles. He writes them down to take the emotion out and make it into words, which are easier to absorb. No matter what’s happening in your head when you get a compliment, the best response is always, “thank you”.
\n\nWe all have an internal measuring stick, and people with Imposter Syndrome have unrealistic measuring sticks. Joep talks about shifting it a tiny bit every day, and how that will help you retrain your brain and your measuring stick. Our bodies react to imposter syndrome as well, and Joep recommends physical activity and getting away from the technology or social sites that make you feel like an imposter.
\n\nJoep fought imposter syndrome with drones; he started flying his drones and learned to get better at it over time. He’s now learning to cook and he’s exploring getting better at things as hobbies, where the stakes are not as big as in his career. When he saw himself pushing himself to be the best at his hobbies, he challenged himself to pull back and just enjoy the learning and process of doing the activity. And in his hobbies, practicing at failing in is one of the keys!
\n\nWhen you feel like an imposter, being vulnerable with yourself and others is even more difficult. Joep says that vulnerability is about knowing what you need and when you need it. Joep now works with a coach. and we talk with him aboout learning to practicie vulnerability without destroying trust. Joep also relied on his Board of Advisors to help him explore vulnerability without feeling too vulnerable.
\n\nJoep Piscaer on Twitter: @jpiscaer
\nJoep’s NextBuild talk: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kl21zya4i0g
This week we welcome Adam Bertram, aka Adam the Automator. Adam wrote a post called “I told my boss I quit and……” which went viral, so we invited Adam to join us. Our goal for having Adam on RJT is to learn from his personal journey of career discovery.
\n\nAdam’s a tech pressional/sys admin, blogger, and content creator.
\n\nWe asked Adam to share his journey before he quit. At the beginning of Adam’s career, he hopped jobs for money. He started a side hustle selling used books on Amazon. With the freedom of making extra money, he realized that he could take his side hustle contracts and make them his full time job.
\n\nAdam started taking contracts writing blog posts, which he loved, and doing projects, which he loved, which led him to realize that he could build a satisfying career around writing and project contracts.
\n\nWe talk through multiple income streams and balancing different roles, family and more. Adam gives his wife a lot of credit for helping him to focus on work by managing their home and family. He is conscious at his different roles: contract/consulting for automation/devops, content creation and community building, and personal brand enhancement. When he looks at them, Adam makes sure he’s consistent and knows what the vision he's heading for in the end.
\n\nAdam brings his talents into everything he learns. For example, he’s started learning about stock trading and he already started a blog go share his process and help others benefit. Building content helps Adam build his brand as a content developer.
\n\nAdam has multiple resumes: writing/content creation, consulting and systems administration. He focuses on different roles for each resume so that he can find a variety of work and have more open options.
\n\nWhen we know our patterns, we can make choices that work for us. When Adam gets bored, he finds something new and gets obsessed and tries to learn everything about it. Knowing his own patterns allows Adam to know when he needs to pick up something new, and also that he’s going to need lots of time to dive in deeply.
\n\nExploring being your own boss with Adam, we learned about his entrepreneurial spirit. Adam looked at his happiness when he had great jobs and still wasn’t happy, and realized he needed to make a big change to working for himself. Knowing this, he realized he needs the freedom of consulting and building his own schedule. Knowing himself and that he’s “unemployable” has helped him tailor his career and consultancy.
\n\nThe move to consultancy happened by dabbling in consulting while working full time. His past as a job hopper helped Adam know that he CAN find a job when he needs to. Having an exit plan helped Adam to navigate the unknown. The boundaries and parameters around the exit plan help to assess.
\n\nNot everyone has freedom to decide on work without money being the driver, but Adam has worked hard to build his FU account in order to make the best personal choices for his career without the pressue of needing the next paycheck. He chooses work, clients and colleagues based on work and team fit vs paychecks. His happiness is tied to his ability to choose the work he does.
\n\nAdam advice to others who wanted to get started is to monetize a hobby. He started selling books on Ebay and Amazon, and then started a blog about how to do it, and then wrote an ebook, which became a lucrative side business that had nothing to do with his day job.
\n\nWe discussed using community to power a career. Adam has always been a documenter. He blogged about what he did, and used it to help him manage projects. He ranked on a post in Google and heard that he was helping others, which really motivated him to be a part of the community and make connections. The connections grew at conferences, on Twitter, on Linkedin, and then as he grew as a MSFT MVP and learned from others. He saw his impact grow and learned so much from others that it motivated him to continue to share and learn from his communities.
\n\nWhen starting a blog, it’s all about creating content and not overthinking. Over time you can look at things like SEO, but it’s about writing and sharing and engaging other writers to build an audience. Adam also advises writing on all types of different sites to make sure you spread yourself out to get a bigger audience to link to your blog.
\n\nAdam on Twitter: @abertram
\nAdam's blog: adamtheautomator.com
We have a letter!!! Our writer (Ready to Be Independent) asks about being a consultant: what does it take, what do they need to do, and what is the pros and cons list? We break it down.
\n\nSome of the things to consider as you're looking at making a leap like this: to consider are: inconsistent revenue as a consultant vs a regular paycheck and salary. What’s your brand and what do you uniquely offer? Are you ok with instability? If you’re a consultant, you’re a small business person and you have to assess your risk tolerance.
\n\nAre you ready to take on the expenses of running your business? We talk about doing soul searching around risk tolerance and not knowing where the money is coming from. You have to believe in yourself.
\n\nIt’s time for your Board of Advisors to fish around to see what they would hire you for. What’s your pitch?
\n\nPut together a business plan: sometimes people do side gigs to build cash and a customer base.
\n\nThe costs are there, and you want to be in a place of financial stability so that it’s not financially uncomfortable.
\n\nBe clear on your mission, vision and values to make sure you can decide who you are so that can communicate that to your customers. Think about marketing and if you’re going to be comfortable with your marketing plan. Are you ready to go into a pitch meeting? If you can’t sell yourself, don’t go into consulting.
\n\nRely on your experts. Know what you’re good at and who you will need to hire (attorney, accountant, etc.).
\n\nAre you organized, consistent and reliable? If it’s not you, you need to have others do it for you, Figure out how to make it work or decide if being independent isn’t for you.
\n\nSomething to think about: as a consultant, you’re an outsider and not actually on the team. Sometimes you’re left out of conversations.
\n\nConsulting gets lonely. Not everyone’s made for that and it can be stressful. Also, vacations as a consultant usually mean a dip in revenue, and client work still needs to get done. So as a consultant, you don’t have a boss, but you also don’t have co-workers to cover for you, or even to have coffee with and talk about what you're working on.
\n\nCareer growth is possible as a consultant. It’s about relationships you make and the value you deliver. How strategic are you and what value do you bring? You can grow in many areas based off your core competencies. If you’re not want to be where you want to be professionally, it may not work.
\n\nKat’s favorite part of being a consultant is working from everywhere, and being able to see if a role will be a right fit for her and her client. Liz likes that she’s had an impact on a number of companies according to her values.
\n\nThanks for the question, Ready to be Independent.
\n\nSo listeners, are you ready to make the leap and be a consultant? As always, feel free to reach out to ask your questions or talk through your current situation.
","summary":"Liz and Kat answer a listener's question about quitting their day job to become a consultant.","date_published":"2020-11-10T10:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/f83bac93-c584-4bcd-90b4-0226a4a69e7f.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":33579383,"duration_in_seconds":2092}]},{"id":"420664db-ff9d-43ad-8c03-347474778aaa","title":"Episode 48: Navigating Politics at Work","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/48-navigating-politics-at-work","content_text":"The US election is heating up, and Liz and Kat want to help you navigate politics, voting, and all related topics at work.\n\nFirst of all, know your company’s rules around voting and if you have time off to vote. Make a plan to vote! And do it within your employer’s rules.\n\nKnow that social media is public, and if you are choosing to be political on social media, our advice is to be as minimalist as your integrity allows and you feel that the situation calls far. Being aware of what you’re putting out there and that your words can get back to your co-workers. If your opinions will make someone uncomfortable around you, it can affect your career.\n\nOur goal for discourse at work on all topics is to allow people to be who they are, to not shame anyone, and to feel comfortable participating as you choose to in company events, like company representation at parades and protests. And at the same time not to shame someone for not participating in social activism. \n\nIf politics come up at work, you should come from a place of inquiry, understanding and conversation -- rather than a place of defensiveness. Try something like this: “I haven’t heard great things about that candidate; can you tell me why you like them?”. \n\nAs far as your workspace environment, try to keep it neutral at work. And try not to check the news at work, especially if it's something that's likely to rile you up or make you anxious or distracted or otherwise nutty.\n\nTo create a postitive impact, rather than just adding ot the flames of political fighting, try to focus on how alike we are, and what we have in common -- vs zooming in our differences.\n\nPeople who pick fights unnecessarily yat work can be assholes. Our asshole episode- see RJT Episode 6 for more tips on how to work with assholes, but don’t be one!\n\nOur basic rules around politics at work:\n\n\nAsk open questions about political and policy topics\nStay away from the biggies like abortion and same sex marriage if that topic is going to make someone uncomfortable\nWalk away or change the topic if you feel uncomfortable.\nDon't poke the bear. Or ask someone \"why do you support xYZ?\"\nBe honest, but answer with tact and facts. Try \"Education is my hot button belief, and I believe that candidate XYZ will do more to support modernizing education than the other candidates, so they have my vote.\" instead of \"Only idiots will vote for candidate ABC, \"\nDon't try to win a debate... you're most likely not going to change someone's mind in either Slack or the break room at work.\n\n\nIf you're in the US, make sure you have a plan to vote!","content_html":"The US election is heating up, and Liz and Kat want to help you navigate politics, voting, and all related topics at work.
\n\nFirst of all, know your company’s rules around voting and if you have time off to vote. Make a plan to vote! And do it within your employer’s rules.
\n\nKnow that social media is public, and if you are choosing to be political on social media, our advice is to be as minimalist as your integrity allows and you feel that the situation calls far. Being aware of what you’re putting out there and that your words can get back to your co-workers. If your opinions will make someone uncomfortable around you, it can affect your career.
\n\nOur goal for discourse at work on all topics is to allow people to be who they are, to not shame anyone, and to feel comfortable participating as you choose to in company events, like company representation at parades and protests. And at the same time not to shame someone for not participating in social activism.
\n\nIf politics come up at work, you should come from a place of inquiry, understanding and conversation -- rather than a place of defensiveness. Try something like this: “I haven’t heard great things about that candidate; can you tell me why you like them?”.
\n\nAs far as your workspace environment, try to keep it neutral at work. And try not to check the news at work, especially if it's something that's likely to rile you up or make you anxious or distracted or otherwise nutty.
\n\nTo create a postitive impact, rather than just adding ot the flames of political fighting, try to focus on how alike we are, and what we have in common -- vs zooming in our differences.
\n\nPeople who pick fights unnecessarily yat work can be assholes. Our asshole episode- see RJT Episode 6 for more tips on how to work with assholes, but don’t be one!
\n\nOur basic rules around politics at work:
\n\nBoth Kat and Liz are BIG fans of Brene Brown’s Dare to Lead. This book is about leadership; we adhere to the belief that we’re all leaders of our own lives and careers, and so we think that this book applies to everyone.
\n\nHaving the ability to "rumble," whether it’s in your personal or work life, will help you authentically connect with people around you to solve hard problems and come together with shared goals.
\n\nBrene Brown defines rumble like this:
\n\n\n\n\nA rumble is a discussion, conversation, or meeting defined by a commitment to lean into vulnerability, to stay curious and generous, to stick with the messy middle of problem identification and solving, to take a break and circle back when necessary, to be fearless in owning our parts, and, as psychologist Harriet Lerner teaches, to listen with the same passion with which we want to be heard.
\n
Having an uncomfortable conversation? It takes courage, but to set the stage and then lean into the uncomfortable topic, establishing trust and safety -- that's what builds a stronger team. Setting the stage as kind and respectful helps to alleviate some anxiety, and knowing that everyone’s trying to do the best for the company helps with that. Brene’s rumbling context makes it so much easier.
\n\nWhen you’re a leader and you see an issue and you don’t address it because it’s uncomfortable, it just grows. You must address uncomfortable situations.
\n\nIf things get heated, it’s ok to schedule time the next day, step away, think it over, and come back together again tomorrow. Stopping before you do damage is important.
\n\nTake breaths to calm yourself when you get stressed. Taking a minute before a big meeting for a technique like box breathing will help you stay centered and calm. (Box breathing = inhale for 4 seconds; hold for four, exhale for four, hold for four.) You can use a technique like this to transition between moments and contexts that may be stressful, especially when working at home and potentially multi-tasking. Your family commitments are important.
\n\nWhen planning a rumble, it’s important to talk about what you need to talk about. Otherwise the person’s imagination can get carried away, and they can get unnecessarily worked up for no reason. If Liz tells Kat that they need to rumble about RJT marketing, it’s a lot different than saying “we need to rumble about something.”
\n\nIf you’re only listening to the voice in your head, you’re not open, and it’s important to be neutral and quieting the voices in your head, while being open to being wrong. Be both open and solutions-focused.
\n\nRumbling isn’t just for careers; it can be personal too. Approaching personal issues as open-minded and solutions-oriented will help build trust and help strengthen any relationship.
\n\nBrene talks about values and how we bring values into everything we do, and challenges us to pick two core values out of her list of 50. After a lot of thought, Kat picked service to others and integrity and Liz picked authenticity and reliability.
\n\nBrene also challenges her readers to pick times that they were aligned with and also against their core values. We talk about how being more aligned with values is easier as we get older. Understanding someone’s values helps you understand and appreciate their perspective; diverse values and perspectives at the table help move businesses forward. Understanding those viewpoints make you better.
\n\nWhen you show others who you are, it helps you to grow.
\n\nTrust is earned in all relationships, including atwork. Doing what we say we’re going to do establishes trust. Asking for help is critical to success in Brene Brown’s world; it shows people you’re working on it and you’re focused on doing what’s needed to get things done.
\n\nGossip is toxic. If someone gossips about someone else, they’ll gossip about you, and then trust is lost.
\n\nFailurd happens, and it’s uncomfortable. But through the creative process, failure happens in order create and grow. Growth mindset celebrates failure, and if you communicate about trying something new, and you fall, own it and iterate.
\n\nCheck out any of Brené Brown's books, but if you're interested in how her work applies to your work, we especially recommend Dare to Lead.
","summary":"Kat and Liz discuss Brene Brown’s _Dare to Lead_.","date_published":"2020-10-13T06:30:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/e193710c-fe3f-4867-a313-387cc1eb2faa.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":39602678,"duration_in_seconds":2471}]},{"id":"32a11c44-341f-4349-8e19-d8c42f216975","title":"Episode 46: Getting Federal Job Results with Corliss Jackson","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/46-getting-federal-job-results-with-corliss-jackson","content_text":"On this episode, we welcome to Corliss Jackson, the founder and CEO of Federal Job Results and author of Cracking the Federal Job Code. Corliss is a speaker and panelist, and her company mission it to help people find jobs with the US federal government.\n\nCorliss started as a consultant after college; she decided that she wanted to work for the government but didn’t know how. She figured it out, and she learned a lot about what to do -- and what not to do in the process. She also realized that many other people would need help in figuring out the federal government application process. And so she started her firm, which focuses on helping people transfer into the federal sector.\n\nFederal jobs are working for the US Department of Something-or-other. 85% of the jobs are outside of Washington DC, and there are regional and state agencies for each department. The most sought after skills are the same as you find in the corporate sector. There are positions in finance, healthcare, IT, project management, librarians…..It’s a great place to look for security, camaraderie, and if you want to be a part of a team.\n\nOne place to look is usajobs.com; there are 13,000 positions open across the US on a given day. Federal Government has to spend a certain amount on hiring, and now has extra money from Covid needs (healthcare, finance, HR….). The Small Business Admin has hired 6000 people nationwide over the last pandemic to help distribute Covid money.\n\nWhat’s it like to land a Federal job? It’s VERY different from corporate. Corliss helps people understand the process and move their resume from a corporate sector resume (1-2 pages) to a Federal sector resume (5+ pages). She helps people understand what they need to show on their application package to be successful in the process. 90-95% of people who apply to Federal jobs get turned down because they don’t get through the process. \n\nSometimes people don’t know which jobs to apply for, so Corliss helps them to target the right choices and then tailor their resume for the right job. HR people in the Federal sector want to see how you respond to the Self Assessment questionnaire. You have to fill that out by bragging on yourself. Once you get through that filter, HR will scan your resume for the right keywords.\n\nIt takes 4-8 weeks to get through the resume review process. You then get put into three categories -- no, middle, or yes.\n\nSometimes your resume can get shared within an agency, but often you will need to apply to multiple roles. Sharing only happens within an agency and when you’re the best qualified.\n\nWe asked if it hurts you to not have Federal experience, and Corliss said that it’s good to bring your transferrable skills to the Federal government. Most roles and skillsets are not only Federal.\n\nOnce you have assembled a good Federal job seeker package, apply to as many Federal jobs as you can, so you get as many interviews as you can. Have a great package, know what you want to target, and then apply across the board.\n\nWho should call Corliss? Someone who is open to coaching will do well. Corliss takes information and helps clients build a Federal resume retrofitting experience into what the agencies need to see. They coach people on what to do, and when and why to do it in order to successfully navigate the HR process.\n\nFederal interviews are different, and Corliss helps you to navigate the interview process, answer questions well, and then negotiate salary and vacation time. You have to negotiate in a certain way, and many people leave 10-20k on the table because they don’t ask.\n\nHot skills in the Federal government: IT, security, contractor. Government loves certifications -- even more than degrees. It can take 2-18 months to land a Federal job. Interviewing takes a lot of time, but after you pass that, you go through an extensive background check to make sure you aren’t a threat to the federal government. They give you a tentative offer while they do the background check, and this takes at least 2 months. If you need a clearance, it takes a lot longer.\n\nMost of Corliss’ clients land in 4-6 months because she helps them to avoid landmines. Corliss advises you not to leave you current job until you have a start date, and even then you need to be careful. You’re not a Federal employee until you take your oath of office.\n\nDuring an administration shift, all jobs freeze at the beginning of a new President’s term, but there is always hiring going on for when the freeze is over. It’s stable once you get in.\n\nReferrals are good in the Federal land, but you need to be on the Most Qualified list.\n\nRead Corliss’s book, Cracking the Federal Job Code, and find her online at FederalJobResults.com.","content_html":"On this episode, we welcome to Corliss Jackson, the founder and CEO of Federal Job Results and author of Cracking the Federal Job Code. Corliss is a speaker and panelist, and her company mission it to help people find jobs with the US federal government.
\n\nCorliss started as a consultant after college; she decided that she wanted to work for the government but didn’t know how. She figured it out, and she learned a lot about what to do -- and what not to do in the process. She also realized that many other people would need help in figuring out the federal government application process. And so she started her firm, which focuses on helping people transfer into the federal sector.
\n\nFederal jobs are working for the US Department of Something-or-other. 85% of the jobs are outside of Washington DC, and there are regional and state agencies for each department. The most sought after skills are the same as you find in the corporate sector. There are positions in finance, healthcare, IT, project management, librarians…..It’s a great place to look for security, camaraderie, and if you want to be a part of a team.
\n\nOne place to look is usajobs.com; there are 13,000 positions open across the US on a given day. Federal Government has to spend a certain amount on hiring, and now has extra money from Covid needs (healthcare, finance, HR….). The Small Business Admin has hired 6000 people nationwide over the last pandemic to help distribute Covid money.
\n\nWhat’s it like to land a Federal job? It’s VERY different from corporate. Corliss helps people understand the process and move their resume from a corporate sector resume (1-2 pages) to a Federal sector resume (5+ pages). She helps people understand what they need to show on their application package to be successful in the process. 90-95% of people who apply to Federal jobs get turned down because they don’t get through the process.
\n\nSometimes people don’t know which jobs to apply for, so Corliss helps them to target the right choices and then tailor their resume for the right job. HR people in the Federal sector want to see how you respond to the Self Assessment questionnaire. You have to fill that out by bragging on yourself. Once you get through that filter, HR will scan your resume for the right keywords.
\n\nIt takes 4-8 weeks to get through the resume review process. You then get put into three categories -- no, middle, or yes.
\n\nSometimes your resume can get shared within an agency, but often you will need to apply to multiple roles. Sharing only happens within an agency and when you’re the best qualified.
\n\nWe asked if it hurts you to not have Federal experience, and Corliss said that it’s good to bring your transferrable skills to the Federal government. Most roles and skillsets are not only Federal.
\n\nOnce you have assembled a good Federal job seeker package, apply to as many Federal jobs as you can, so you get as many interviews as you can. Have a great package, know what you want to target, and then apply across the board.
\n\nWho should call Corliss? Someone who is open to coaching will do well. Corliss takes information and helps clients build a Federal resume retrofitting experience into what the agencies need to see. They coach people on what to do, and when and why to do it in order to successfully navigate the HR process.
\n\nFederal interviews are different, and Corliss helps you to navigate the interview process, answer questions well, and then negotiate salary and vacation time. You have to negotiate in a certain way, and many people leave 10-20k on the table because they don’t ask.
\n\nHot skills in the Federal government: IT, security, contractor. Government loves certifications -- even more than degrees. It can take 2-18 months to land a Federal job. Interviewing takes a lot of time, but after you pass that, you go through an extensive background check to make sure you aren’t a threat to the federal government. They give you a tentative offer while they do the background check, and this takes at least 2 months. If you need a clearance, it takes a lot longer.
\n\nMost of Corliss’ clients land in 4-6 months because she helps them to avoid landmines. Corliss advises you not to leave you current job until you have a start date, and even then you need to be careful. You’re not a Federal employee until you take your oath of office.
\n\nDuring an administration shift, all jobs freeze at the beginning of a new President’s term, but there is always hiring going on for when the freeze is over. It’s stable once you get in.
\n\nReferrals are good in the Federal land, but you need to be on the Most Qualified list.
\n\nRead Corliss’s book, Cracking the Federal Job Code, and find her online at FederalJobResults.com.
","summary":"Liz and Kat learn more about the federal job system","date_published":"2020-09-29T06:30:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/32a11c44-341f-4349-8e19-d8c42f216975.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":36928807,"duration_in_seconds":3077}]},{"id":"6843c972-4ced-4a1a-a216-6a731a0edc03","title":"Episode 45: Take a vacation","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/45-take-a-vacation","content_text":"Vacation is important for relaxation and connection, even in times of COVID. Our goal is to encourage you to take vacation, especially during this strange and difficult period.\n\nIt takes trust and confidence to take time away from your desk, but we want you to unplug and take vacation, even if it means you aren’t leaving your house.\n\nPlan vacation around times when your job/group aren’t busy so you don’t end up having to log on. For example, if you’re in sales, plan it for the 1st week of the quarter, not the last.\n\nIf you have a vacation planned before you start a new job, let them know in the offer process. \n\nDon’t plan a new vacation in the first 3-6 months in your job. When you’re new, ask your boss or colleague when a good time is to take vacation.\n\nPlan what you’re going to do and block your calendar. ESPECIALLY for a staycation. \n\nDon’t check email and act as if you’re in a place without internet access. Don’t try to vacation around meetings.\n\nSetting boundaries around vacation time is important, but managing calendars are critical. Clear your calendar, declining or rescheduling meetings for when you are gone.\n\nManagers- TAKE YOUR VACATION. Your employees are watching, and if they don’t see you take vacation, they’ll think they can’t. Lead by example.\n\nHand off your stuff while you’re out. Ask someone you trust to cover for you. The more thorough you are, the less likelihood you will get called while they’re out.\n\nWhen you run a business, it’s very hard to fully unplug. You can do some things like having a good out of office saying when you’re out and when you’ll check email and respond to urgent emails.\n\nLiz checks emails twice a day to block, tackle and delegate, but does not do any projects while on vacation. Checking emails allows her to relax and know that her business is in good shape.\n\nTurn off Slack and all communication tools in vacation mode. Our rule: phones are only for camera use and communication with people who you are with.\n\nSet expectations for anyone you think may need you.\n\nComing back: keep your vacation mojo by cleaning up your inbox before your first day back or blocking the 1st half day, prioritizing important projects and making your to-do list.\n\nRead emails top down to know what’s been handled. Remember that most of the emails will have been handled by the person covering for you, so look at them as an FYI. \n\nHave a meeting first thing to talk with the person covering for you to get questions answered about what you missed. When you’re covering for someone, at the end of their vacation time, send a “Here’s What you Missed” email to catch them up quickly.\n\nVacations are important to fill your tank, take care of yourself, set example for others around you, and connect with your loved ones.\n\nYou’re taking time off for you, and no matter where you go, use the time to rejuvinate and reenergize, even if it’s in la backyard.","content_html":"Vacation is important for relaxation and connection, even in times of COVID. Our goal is to encourage you to take vacation, especially during this strange and difficult period.
\n\nIt takes trust and confidence to take time away from your desk, but we want you to unplug and take vacation, even if it means you aren’t leaving your house.
\n\nPlan vacation around times when your job/group aren’t busy so you don’t end up having to log on. For example, if you’re in sales, plan it for the 1st week of the quarter, not the last.
\n\nIf you have a vacation planned before you start a new job, let them know in the offer process.
\n\nDon’t plan a new vacation in the first 3-6 months in your job. When you’re new, ask your boss or colleague when a good time is to take vacation.
\n\nPlan what you’re going to do and block your calendar. ESPECIALLY for a staycation.
\n\nDon’t check email and act as if you’re in a place without internet access. Don’t try to vacation around meetings.
\n\nSetting boundaries around vacation time is important, but managing calendars are critical. Clear your calendar, declining or rescheduling meetings for when you are gone.
\n\nManagers- TAKE YOUR VACATION. Your employees are watching, and if they don’t see you take vacation, they’ll think they can’t. Lead by example.
\n\nHand off your stuff while you’re out. Ask someone you trust to cover for you. The more thorough you are, the less likelihood you will get called while they’re out.
\n\nWhen you run a business, it’s very hard to fully unplug. You can do some things like having a good out of office saying when you’re out and when you’ll check email and respond to urgent emails.
\n\nLiz checks emails twice a day to block, tackle and delegate, but does not do any projects while on vacation. Checking emails allows her to relax and know that her business is in good shape.
\n\nTurn off Slack and all communication tools in vacation mode. Our rule: phones are only for camera use and communication with people who you are with.
\n\nSet expectations for anyone you think may need you.
\n\nComing back: keep your vacation mojo by cleaning up your inbox before your first day back or blocking the 1st half day, prioritizing important projects and making your to-do list.
\n\nRead emails top down to know what’s been handled. Remember that most of the emails will have been handled by the person covering for you, so look at them as an FYI.
\n\nHave a meeting first thing to talk with the person covering for you to get questions answered about what you missed. When you’re covering for someone, at the end of their vacation time, send a “Here’s What you Missed” email to catch them up quickly.
\n\nVacations are important to fill your tank, take care of yourself, set example for others around you, and connect with your loved ones.
\n\nYou’re taking time off for you, and no matter where you go, use the time to rejuvinate and reenergize, even if it’s in la backyard.
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk vacations","date_published":"2020-09-15T06:30:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/6843c972-4ced-4a1a-a216-6a731a0edc03.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":15486429,"duration_in_seconds":1290}]},{"id":"3d784eef-3f63-4f7e-8606-4067252c016b","title":"Episode 44: Surviving Business Travel with Stephen Andert","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/44-surviving-business-travel-stephen-andert","content_text":"On this episode, we’re learning more about traveling for work. Despite most of us not travelling now, we all have had to travel before, and some of us are slowly starting to travel again for work. Our guest, Stephen Andert, has taken business travel and turned it into an art form. His book, Surviving Business Travel, helps others get the most out of their business travel. (Use code REALJOB for 15% off on the book.)\n\nStephen is an introvert who has learned about public speaking and found ways to enjoy being out of his comfort zone. He is a technical person who helps with sales, and learned skills needed to share his technical knowledge by doing Toastmasters.\n\nHis first travel role had him supporting sales world-wide. He thought the job was going to be only 25% travel, but it ended up being 60%, with long global trips.\n\nStephen is a \"checked bag\" person, as he brings enough running and business clothes to make sure he’s ready for any extensions or situations that may arise.\n\nWhy write a book? He was always being asked questions about business travel from his social media posts. He wanted to write for the people who glamourized business travel as well as those who were burnt out by it. \n\nStephen's tips for surviving business travel:\n\nExperience the world through food. Stephen asks his driver what he can’t leave without eating.\n\nYou never know when it’s the last time you’ll see a place, so Stephen makes sure to plan time to experience at least one special thing from each place he visits. He does a Google search looking for races and other events he can participate in when he’s there.\n\nStephen looks for things that recharge him and that fulfill him when traveling, since being an introvert makes business travel extra exhausting. He doesn’t watch TV, but instead reads and walks. Growing up in Ecuador gives Stephen a different perspective on different cultures, and using that helps him show others how alike different cultures really are.\n\nHow does Stephen handle time zone and climate changes? Stephen uses noise cancelling headphones on planes, and starts adjusting his body before he leaves to go overseas. When he lands, he exercises a bit and gets to bed early to get plenty of sleep so he can also run in the morning.\n\nWhat’s Stephen’s health kit look like? For one thing, it includes supplements. Melatonin to fall asleep on his first night, and a bunch of meds that work for him in different situations so that you don’t have to navigate foreign drug stores.\n\nStephen’s on the road tech kit includes personal and professional laptops and chargers, and he has a list of anything else he might need, again so that he doesn't have to navigate emergency electronics purchases in other countries.\n\nHe does walking and photography tours to learn about the city he’s in. \n\nHe does think that business travel will change during the pandemic and afterwares, especially in how we build relationships, but it will be different with masks. A lot of the in-person events will by necessity say virtual.\n\nSurviving Business Travel: What do do if business travel is killign you by Stephen Andert. On Amazon and survivingbusinesstravel.square.site - use code REALJOB for 15% off\nStephen on Twitter: @FlowingDesert\nStephen Andert on Linkedin","content_html":"On this episode, we’re learning more about traveling for work. Despite most of us not travelling now, we all have had to travel before, and some of us are slowly starting to travel again for work. Our guest, Stephen Andert, has taken business travel and turned it into an art form. His book, Surviving Business Travel, helps others get the most out of their business travel. (Use code REALJOB for 15% off on the book.)
\n\nStephen is an introvert who has learned about public speaking and found ways to enjoy being out of his comfort zone. He is a technical person who helps with sales, and learned skills needed to share his technical knowledge by doing Toastmasters.
\n\nHis first travel role had him supporting sales world-wide. He thought the job was going to be only 25% travel, but it ended up being 60%, with long global trips.
\n\nStephen is a "checked bag" person, as he brings enough running and business clothes to make sure he’s ready for any extensions or situations that may arise.
\n\nWhy write a book? He was always being asked questions about business travel from his social media posts. He wanted to write for the people who glamourized business travel as well as those who were burnt out by it.
\n\nStephen's tips for surviving business travel:
\n\nExperience the world through food. Stephen asks his driver what he can’t leave without eating.
\n\nYou never know when it’s the last time you’ll see a place, so Stephen makes sure to plan time to experience at least one special thing from each place he visits. He does a Google search looking for races and other events he can participate in when he’s there.
\n\nStephen looks for things that recharge him and that fulfill him when traveling, since being an introvert makes business travel extra exhausting. He doesn’t watch TV, but instead reads and walks. Growing up in Ecuador gives Stephen a different perspective on different cultures, and using that helps him show others how alike different cultures really are.
\n\nHow does Stephen handle time zone and climate changes? Stephen uses noise cancelling headphones on planes, and starts adjusting his body before he leaves to go overseas. When he lands, he exercises a bit and gets to bed early to get plenty of sleep so he can also run in the morning.
\n\nWhat’s Stephen’s health kit look like? For one thing, it includes supplements. Melatonin to fall asleep on his first night, and a bunch of meds that work for him in different situations so that you don’t have to navigate foreign drug stores.
\n\nStephen’s on the road tech kit includes personal and professional laptops and chargers, and he has a list of anything else he might need, again so that he doesn't have to navigate emergency electronics purchases in other countries.
\n\nHe does walking and photography tours to learn about the city he’s in.
\n\nHe does think that business travel will change during the pandemic and afterwares, especially in how we build relationships, but it will be different with masks. A lot of the in-person events will by necessity say virtual.
\n\nSurviving Business Travel: What do do if business travel is killign you by Stephen Andert. On Amazon and survivingbusinesstravel.square.site - use code REALJOB for 15% off
\nStephen on Twitter: @FlowingDesert
\nStephen Andert on Linkedin
Welcome to RJT, Carla Birnberg! Carla is a friend of both Kat and Liz, and today we’re talking with Carla about her fascinating career journey as a solo-prenuer, marketer, writer and blogger. Carla has SO much information to offer, and she’s a wonderful example of someone who hustles and creates opportunities through talent, grit and ingenuity.
\n\nCarla’s career was never planned. At the beginning of her career, she thought she would go into academia, and she landed a job at the University of North Carolina. Unfortunately, that job got eliminated before she even started! This forced Carla to think about what she liked to do, which revolved around training and fitness. Shethen became a certified personal trainer, and has had a series of entrepreneurial adventures ever since.
\n\nCarla opened af fitness studio, but then moved to Austin, so she needed to ask herself what she wanted to do in the new city. Should she open a training studio or should she do something else? The key questions Carla asked herself were:
\n\nThat's when Carla started blogging under the name Mz Fit . She worked at the Austin American Statesman during the day to make money, and then worked on the the Mz Fit blog at night and on weekends until it could become her full-time gig.
\n\nCarla found her niche and defined her audience in each iteration of her career. For her blog, it was for women getting into fitness. She was really clear about who she was aiming her writing at.
\n\nEverything Carla’s done as an entrepreneur is something she’s passionate about, and something she’s healed in herself. The understanding and drive helps her help others.
\n\nMission statements: they drive where you are and where you’re going. You can have them for fitness, business... anything that needs you to find your “why.” Why are we here? What do we stand for? Why are we doing this?
\n\nCarla saw niches that needed filling and created spaces for herself in the fitness world. She reads landscapes, works with brands she loves, and is able to keep her fingers on the pulse of what’s coming. As an influencer, she pivoted to do more content creation for others vs herself and showed up consistently.
\n\nBy doing a little every day, whether it’s with fitness or writing, Carla had no hard and fast rules and does everything on a case-to-case basis. She looks at the opportunity in the big picture and takes risks that have potential payoff later vs pay today.
\n\nEven today, as Carla has a traditional day job, she defines herself by her side hustles because they define her entrepreneurial nature.
\n\nCarla is now the CMO of an RPO company, and she’s learning a whole new skill set, while also using her core competencies of seeing how to make things work better, being quick thinking, creative and taking risks to be successful.
\n\nThe value-add that Carla brings is being unafraid of her creativity. She is “unapologetically herself” and believes that age and thick skin allows her to take risks.
\n\nShe works through her ideas and thinks through businesses whether they’re viable. Carla asks herself if she wants to make something the focus of her career. If the answer is no, she doesn’t go through with it. However, if she enjoys a project, like being the show note writer for Esther Perel, she holds on to it, boh because she loves doing it, and also because she doesn't know where it will lead.
\n\nCarla talks about searching for jobs and how to tie experiences together to explain where you are now. She was also able to anchor her job search with the desire to be part of a consistent team. It wasn’t a stretch to take all of her freelancing success and showing how she could have the same success in-house.
\n\nWe asked Carla how she gets her freelance gigs. She is part of communities (mostly women) where they want to help each other out: she helps other women and they help her. She mentions a Facebook group called “The Binders” for freelance writers. It’s about vulnerability, being human and real, and reaching out to people and building relationships. We also talked with Carla how she engages in her Facebook groups in order to build relationships.
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk with Carla Birnberg about navigating a career journey that includes a blog, a full-time gig, and side projects. ","date_published":"2020-08-18T10:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/1e15c7c5-b82c-4b83-a726-9a9f19c63025.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":35782601,"duration_in_seconds":2981}]},{"id":"390d608f-d3bc-4a86-869f-877c70c6d36a","title":"Episode 42: How to prepare for a job interview","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/42-how-to-prepare-for-a-job-interview","content_text":"This episode, we caught ourselves; we talk a lot about interviewing, but we forgot to talk about how to prepare for an interview. Get out your notebook and listen closely …. this episode will teach you how to be prepared for your interviews.\n\nBehavioral Interviewing became popular about 25 years ago, and is based on the assumption that past performance will predict future performance. It’s usually based on competencies that come out of the responsibilties of the job, and the interviewers will each cover a different part of those competencies with you. \n\nThe key to behavioral interviewing, as our old boss J. Mike Smith used to teach us, is to tell a story. Be ready with examples of:\n\n\nSuccess\nFailure\nTeamwork\nLeadership: taking a leadership role, taking the lead when you weren’t the manager\nTurn-arounds and pivots\nWorking cross-functionally: how do you navigate diversity of mindset? of skillset?\nTaking risks\n\n\nIt’s beautiful to learn, adapt and change, and take risks. When talking about mistakes, talk about the learning.\n\nDon’t be afraid of failure; talk about what went wrong, what you did to try to save it (or what you wish you had thought to do in the moment). The key here is to avoid the blame game and to take responsibility when appropriate, but also acknowledge when you were not the decision maker.\n\nHow do you get your examples together? Set aside a few hours and go down memory lane -- but not too far back -- to remember projects and teams to get you ready to tell your story. Write down your examples, read them over and practice them.\n\nMake sure that your examples are recent; someone who gives examples from 10 years ago, but no current examples, makes the interviewer wonder if you’re past your heyday. Unless it’s something really “once in a career,” try to keep your examples in the last 5 years.\n\nUse examples that share a story that help you show that you could be successful in that job. Look at the job description and build your examples around it that show that you are going to be strong in that role. \n\nSome companies give examples of questions they may ask. It’s more important to be prepared for those answers, since they aren’t a surprise. If you’re not confident, ask for help from a coach or colleague or your Board of Advisors. Or use your recruiter to ask what they will ask you. \n\nIf you can use the product the company makes, do it! Have an opinion and talk about your experience.\n\nHave your numbers; be able to show your impact in a factual way. If you saved your company money, tell that story with facts.\n\nHave your “whys” ready to go. Why did you switch careers? Why did you leave your last company? Be able to share logically why you made the decisions you made.\n\nIf you've been part of a layoff, you want to show as much as possible that it wasn’t aboiut you and your performance. “It was a down economy and they laid off my whole division.” Be able to tell your story and what you learned, even if it involves unfortunate situations. \n\nIf there is a gap, don’t over explain. Say what you did in that time, and answer with a direct question. If they want to know more, they’ll ask. Let the interviewer be in charge of the interview.\n\nBe strategic and don’t be afraid to take a moment to compose your answer. It’s better than being a motormouth or saying, “That’s a great question.”\n\nA lot of companies ask situational questions, which you can't really prepare for. Take a minute, think it through for a minute, and then talk and ask qualifying questions. If you go down a certain path but you to back away from, come back to ask a clarifying questions but then pivot. Many situational questions are asked to see how you inquire and learn more. There’s nothing wrong with following up after the question, and realizing that this new information leads you to a different answer.\n\nListen to what your interviewer is asking. When someone asks, “Have you thought about this….?” they are leading you to understand what they are trying to elicit as an answer. Listen to the first question, but also the follow-ups to see where they may want you to go.\n\nAlways ask questions, both job- and culture-related, and make sure you know how the company aligns with your own must-have list. \"What do you like about working here?\" is a good question. And \"What would you change if you could?\" is a great question to get to the truth of working there.\n\nDo your research; they’re going to want to know what you think about them. Look at their website, Glassdoor, Google them, and search Linkedin for emploiyee profiles.\n\nBy doing all this, you avoid the \"blank brain\" problem, and you will go in confidently and prepared for your job interview.","content_html":"This episode, we caught ourselves; we talk a lot about interviewing, but we forgot to talk about how to prepare for an interview. Get out your notebook and listen closely …. this episode will teach you how to be prepared for your interviews.
\n\nBehavioral Interviewing became popular about 25 years ago, and is based on the assumption that past performance will predict future performance. It’s usually based on competencies that come out of the responsibilties of the job, and the interviewers will each cover a different part of those competencies with you.
\n\nThe key to behavioral interviewing, as our old boss J. Mike Smith used to teach us, is to tell a story. Be ready with examples of:
\n\nIt’s beautiful to learn, adapt and change, and take risks. When talking about mistakes, talk about the learning.
\n\nDon’t be afraid of failure; talk about what went wrong, what you did to try to save it (or what you wish you had thought to do in the moment). The key here is to avoid the blame game and to take responsibility when appropriate, but also acknowledge when you were not the decision maker.
\n\nHow do you get your examples together? Set aside a few hours and go down memory lane -- but not too far back -- to remember projects and teams to get you ready to tell your story. Write down your examples, read them over and practice them.
\n\nMake sure that your examples are recent; someone who gives examples from 10 years ago, but no current examples, makes the interviewer wonder if you’re past your heyday. Unless it’s something really “once in a career,” try to keep your examples in the last 5 years.
\n\nUse examples that share a story that help you show that you could be successful in that job. Look at the job description and build your examples around it that show that you are going to be strong in that role.
\n\nSome companies give examples of questions they may ask. It’s more important to be prepared for those answers, since they aren’t a surprise. If you’re not confident, ask for help from a coach or colleague or your Board of Advisors. Or use your recruiter to ask what they will ask you.
\n\nIf you can use the product the company makes, do it! Have an opinion and talk about your experience.
\n\nHave your numbers; be able to show your impact in a factual way. If you saved your company money, tell that story with facts.
\n\nHave your “whys” ready to go. Why did you switch careers? Why did you leave your last company? Be able to share logically why you made the decisions you made.
\n\nIf you've been part of a layoff, you want to show as much as possible that it wasn’t aboiut you and your performance. “It was a down economy and they laid off my whole division.” Be able to tell your story and what you learned, even if it involves unfortunate situations.
\n\nIf there is a gap, don’t over explain. Say what you did in that time, and answer with a direct question. If they want to know more, they’ll ask. Let the interviewer be in charge of the interview.
\n\nBe strategic and don’t be afraid to take a moment to compose your answer. It’s better than being a motormouth or saying, “That’s a great question.”
\n\nA lot of companies ask situational questions, which you can't really prepare for. Take a minute, think it through for a minute, and then talk and ask qualifying questions. If you go down a certain path but you to back away from, come back to ask a clarifying questions but then pivot. Many situational questions are asked to see how you inquire and learn more. There’s nothing wrong with following up after the question, and realizing that this new information leads you to a different answer.
\n\nListen to what your interviewer is asking. When someone asks, “Have you thought about this….?” they are leading you to understand what they are trying to elicit as an answer. Listen to the first question, but also the follow-ups to see where they may want you to go.
\n\nAlways ask questions, both job- and culture-related, and make sure you know how the company aligns with your own must-have list. "What do you like about working here?" is a good question. And "What would you change if you could?" is a great question to get to the truth of working there.
\n\nDo your research; they’re going to want to know what you think about them. Look at their website, Glassdoor, Google them, and search Linkedin for emploiyee profiles.
\n\nBy doing all this, you avoid the "blank brain" problem, and you will go in confidently and prepared for your job interview.
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk about how to prepare for a job interview","date_published":"2020-08-04T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/390d608f-d3bc-4a86-869f-877c70c6d36a.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":25707131,"duration_in_seconds":2142}]},{"id":"f955f624-9653-406d-9264-414803bdd7ad","title":"Episode 41: Ask for what you need at work","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/41-ask-for-what-you-need-at-work","content_text":"We recorded this episode to help people ask for what they need at work, without also feeling like they are asking for too much, impairing their career, or being high maintenance.\n\nWe start with the request, which we hear coming up quite a bit, to continue to work from home because of health or childcare concerns with the virus when your company wants you to come back to the office. Many companies are built around having junior employees learning from more senior ones, and the expecation in many companies have been that employees will return as soon as they think conditions are safe enough. Of course, there are some jobs that can’t be done from home (service and healthcare, as well as anybody that has to work with people (food service, healthcare) or making or moving physical things.\n\nHere are some tips:\n\n\nBe clear on what you are asking for.\nGo directly to your boss and state the honest facts, being as flexible as possible.\nShow you’re bending to accommodate as much as possible\nTell them your plan: for example, how you are going to get your work done, showing any anticipated problems and your solutions to them.\nDon’t rely on your boss to come up with solutions.\n\n\nBosses: if you are managing a team that is coming back to the office, you can anticipate who will have issues and talk to them 1:1 to talk about their situations.\n\nIf the accommodation is around health issues, you may need to share your personal situation with them, like a compromised immune system, to explain why you need to stay home. If you are doing great work in quarantine, your need to stay home will like not be an issue. Sharing this may feel private. It may take vulnerability. \n\nIf you are interviewing and need to ask for anythijng, even when we're not ijn a pandemic, what should you do? \n\nBring your strengths and flexibility into the beginning part of the process, and have the conversation about accommodations you want or need. Once a company has expressed interest, you should talk with the recruiter and tell them what you need (whether it’s a vacation, a standing desk, or anything else). Then keep talking about moving forward and express your interest. \n\nYou have to read the room, though. You don't want the hiring manager and recruiter to feel like you've held back an important fact. For instance, if you have a vacation trip planned in a few months, and it turns out that's a time when they're going to need you at work and not on vacatio, you may need to call it out earlier in the process. on and if they are going to need you at the time you’re gone, you may need to call it out earlier.\n\nHere's how you ask for something you need at work . We call it \"the golden rule of requests\": \n\n\nThis the problem.\nThis is what I need.\nAnd this is how I’m going to hande any issues that come up.\n","content_html":"We recorded this episode to help people ask for what they need at work, without also feeling like they are asking for too much, impairing their career, or being high maintenance.
\n\nWe start with the request, which we hear coming up quite a bit, to continue to work from home because of health or childcare concerns with the virus when your company wants you to come back to the office. Many companies are built around having junior employees learning from more senior ones, and the expecation in many companies have been that employees will return as soon as they think conditions are safe enough. Of course, there are some jobs that can’t be done from home (service and healthcare, as well as anybody that has to work with people (food service, healthcare) or making or moving physical things.
\n\nHere are some tips:
\n\nBosses: if you are managing a team that is coming back to the office, you can anticipate who will have issues and talk to them 1:1 to talk about their situations.
\n\nIf the accommodation is around health issues, you may need to share your personal situation with them, like a compromised immune system, to explain why you need to stay home. If you are doing great work in quarantine, your need to stay home will like not be an issue. Sharing this may feel private. It may take vulnerability.
\n\nIf you are interviewing and need to ask for anythijng, even when we're not ijn a pandemic, what should you do?
\n\nBring your strengths and flexibility into the beginning part of the process, and have the conversation about accommodations you want or need. Once a company has expressed interest, you should talk with the recruiter and tell them what you need (whether it’s a vacation, a standing desk, or anything else). Then keep talking about moving forward and express your interest.
\n\nYou have to read the room, though. You don't want the hiring manager and recruiter to feel like you've held back an important fact. For instance, if you have a vacation trip planned in a few months, and it turns out that's a time when they're going to need you at work and not on vacatio, you may need to call it out earlier in the process. on and if they are going to need you at the time you’re gone, you may need to call it out earlier.
\n\nHere's how you ask for something you need at work . We call it "the golden rule of requests":
\n\n\n","summary":"Liz and Kat talk about asking for what you need at work without feeling like you're high maintenance.","date_published":"2020-07-21T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/f955f624-9653-406d-9264-414803bdd7ad.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":19080295,"duration_in_seconds":1590}]},{"id":"0968e476-4392-43f3-842b-5457f24fad21","title":"Episode 40: Deep Listening with Oscar Trimboli","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/40-deep-listening-with-oscar-trimboli","content_text":"Deep listening affects every area of your life, including creating stronger relationships at work and at home. Our guest, Oscar Trimboli, is a former technology exec who has dedicated his life to helping over 10M people become deep listeners. \n\nGrowing up an immigrant, Oscar had to learn how to listen to different languages by paying attention to body language and other ways to understand what people were saying. In his corporate gigs, Oscar became known for asking “Have we asked a customer?” Had the company actually listened?\n\nOscar is trying to get 100M deep listeners around the world, helping people to learn to listen to what’s not said out loud. Deep listeners can even help a speaker make sense, because they listen to the meaning in how the speaker is speaking.\n\nWhat’s the nirvana of deep listening? Reducing the chaos of confusion. Hearing what people and customers are saying. Wasting less time from not paying attention or not knowing what you’re supposed to be doing. It’s about impact beyond words and fixing relationships\n\nWe need to listen to those who don’t speak up-- sometimes they arre the ones who can best cultivate ideas. In bringing ideas to the table, it often helps to have people from different backgrounds and expertise bring their ideas to the table.\n\nLeaders need a mindset for listening to what is said and unsaid in conversations. If you are hosting a meeting, you needsto make sure everyone has a voice, so that good ideas are not lost. Why have someone at a meeting if they aren’t going to be able to contribute? Ask people what they are noticing or what they are thinking vs asking for a direct answer. \n\nTalking about recruiting... Oscar always hired quickly because he had his job requirerments sorted out, he had an understanding of customers, and he attracted people to the team. He would ask people who were interested in working for him to talk with customers and tell him something he didn’t know. He was interested in the ones who did, and who showed thoughtful customer conversations and thoughtful follow-through after. He looked for productivity and ability to give feedback when there is an opportunity to tell truth to power.\n\nOscar says that we’re in an imagination economy where we need to learn, unlearn and relearn -- all of which require listening and abandoning old assumptions.\n\nIn Oscar’s book, he talks about 4 villains of listening. They are the dramatic listener (loves your story becomes it becomes a theater where they can be an actor), the interrupting listener (they jump in from a place of purposeful problem solving, but don’t listen completely), the lost listener (they drift in and out of the conversation and are distracted), and the shrewd listener (hearing you and trying to be the smartest person in the room). Be aware of what yourpersonal listening villain is. And to be a good listener, switch your phone off (no buzzes or beeps) and make sure distractions are minimized.\n\nYou can’t task switch at the front of the brain where processing is done. The minute you task switch at the front of your memory, there is a cost to productivity.\n85% of people think they’re above average listeners….\n\nPhysical tips: Drinking water helps us be more productive- a hydrated brain is better at listening. The deeper the breath, the deeper the listening.\n\nProductivity paradox: Oscar talks about pragmatic presence, which means talking about the chaos around that’s off screen. Once again, this is about making the implicit explicit.\n\nIf you listen to absolutes, you miss the real meaning. \n\nYou are amazing. Let your clients see more of you. Your biggest goal is to be more of you.\n\nWe also talked about silence, a pause allows the speaker’s thoughts to catch up. That silence helps us synchronize and realize what needs to come next.\n\nOscar's best advice to people who want to be better listeners: pause, take a drink of water and hear what people are saying and practice being a deep listener.\n\nOscar Trimboli on Twitter: @oscartrimboli\nOscar's site: oscartrimboli.com\n\nOscar's latest book: Deep Listening: Impact Beyond Words","content_html":"This the problem.
\n
\nThis is what I need.
\nAnd this is how I’m going to hande any issues that come up.
Deep listening affects every area of your life, including creating stronger relationships at work and at home. Our guest, Oscar Trimboli, is a former technology exec who has dedicated his life to helping over 10M people become deep listeners.
\n\nGrowing up an immigrant, Oscar had to learn how to listen to different languages by paying attention to body language and other ways to understand what people were saying. In his corporate gigs, Oscar became known for asking “Have we asked a customer?” Had the company actually listened?
\n\nOscar is trying to get 100M deep listeners around the world, helping people to learn to listen to what’s not said out loud. Deep listeners can even help a speaker make sense, because they listen to the meaning in how the speaker is speaking.
\n\nWhat’s the nirvana of deep listening? Reducing the chaos of confusion. Hearing what people and customers are saying. Wasting less time from not paying attention or not knowing what you’re supposed to be doing. It’s about impact beyond words and fixing relationships
\n\nWe need to listen to those who don’t speak up-- sometimes they arre the ones who can best cultivate ideas. In bringing ideas to the table, it often helps to have people from different backgrounds and expertise bring their ideas to the table.
\n\nLeaders need a mindset for listening to what is said and unsaid in conversations. If you are hosting a meeting, you needsto make sure everyone has a voice, so that good ideas are not lost. Why have someone at a meeting if they aren’t going to be able to contribute? Ask people what they are noticing or what they are thinking vs asking for a direct answer.
\n\nTalking about recruiting... Oscar always hired quickly because he had his job requirerments sorted out, he had an understanding of customers, and he attracted people to the team. He would ask people who were interested in working for him to talk with customers and tell him something he didn’t know. He was interested in the ones who did, and who showed thoughtful customer conversations and thoughtful follow-through after. He looked for productivity and ability to give feedback when there is an opportunity to tell truth to power.
\n\nOscar says that we’re in an imagination economy where we need to learn, unlearn and relearn -- all of which require listening and abandoning old assumptions.
\n\nIn Oscar’s book, he talks about 4 villains of listening. They are the dramatic listener (loves your story becomes it becomes a theater where they can be an actor), the interrupting listener (they jump in from a place of purposeful problem solving, but don’t listen completely), the lost listener (they drift in and out of the conversation and are distracted), and the shrewd listener (hearing you and trying to be the smartest person in the room). Be aware of what yourpersonal listening villain is. And to be a good listener, switch your phone off (no buzzes or beeps) and make sure distractions are minimized.
\n\nYou can’t task switch at the front of the brain where processing is done. The minute you task switch at the front of your memory, there is a cost to productivity.
\n85% of people think they’re above average listeners….
Physical tips: Drinking water helps us be more productive- a hydrated brain is better at listening. The deeper the breath, the deeper the listening.
\n\nProductivity paradox: Oscar talks about pragmatic presence, which means talking about the chaos around that’s off screen. Once again, this is about making the implicit explicit.
\n\nIf you listen to absolutes, you miss the real meaning.
\n\nYou are amazing. Let your clients see more of you. Your biggest goal is to be more of you.
\n\nWe also talked about silence, a pause allows the speaker’s thoughts to catch up. That silence helps us synchronize and realize what needs to come next.
\n\nOscar's best advice to people who want to be better listeners: pause, take a drink of water and hear what people are saying and practice being a deep listener.
\n\nOscar Trimboli on Twitter: @oscartrimboli
\nOscar's site: oscartrimboli.com
Oscar's latest book: Deep Listening: Impact Beyond Words
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk about deep listening with Oscar Trimboli.","date_published":"2020-07-07T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/0968e476-4392-43f3-842b-5457f24fad21.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":44118104,"duration_in_seconds":3676}]},{"id":"1d23c2c1-a65b-47f3-8773-2083a91ea4b6","title":"Episode 39: Managing Up","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/39-managing-up","content_text":"We’re excited to talk in this episode about reverse management, or managing up. We’re going to get into it, and talk about how to work with a manager, how to talk with your manager, and how to excel even when your manager isn’t very good at managing...\n\nWe discuss how sometimes people don’t manage up well because they don’t want to be a burden, but rule #1 is to communicate and sometimes over-communicate. A CC on an email is an FYI, and it helps your boss have the information they may need.\n\nWhen a manager doesn’t know what is going on, they ask questions and ask for data to prove work. When they don’t see proof of work, it gets uncomfortable.\n\nThe point of information is clarity. If you manage up well, the executive team will hear more about you and your projects, and it will benefit your career. \n\nIf you don’t show your boss your good work, they can’t share it with their boss and therefore you won’t get recognition. Same with if you aren’t doing good work and you need help. Your manager can can help you learn and can cover for you to others...\n\nIf you look at your week and your goals based on what you think is expected, you can share that with your boss to make sure you are doing what they need you to do. A quick touch-base at the beginning and end of the week ensure alignment.\n\nRegular updates help your manager know you, how you work, what you do and what’s on your plate. By setting expectations, you open up lines of communication for hard discussions around expectations.\n\nIt’s important to mention long-term projects periodically to make sure your manager knows that it’s on your radar.\n\nWe don’t all remember everything going on, so a reminder is a good paper trail to keep them posted. Sending the email is a CYA -- whether or not your manager opens the email is up to them.\n\nWe think it’s so important to have 1:1 meetings between employees and managers to build trust and communication. As an employee, you want to be prepared and your weekly update can be the basis for that meeting.\n\nManagers need to have a “manageable” number of direct reports so that they can meet regularly. When managers get regular status reports, they can have fewer 1:1s and use them as career mentorship, expectation setting, and other high-level uses of that time vs communicating status updates.\n\nWhat should you do when your manager is a 1:1 canceller? \n\nIf you’re a manager who is unsure of yourself as a manager, read some books like Dare to Lead by Brene Brown. Educate yourself with podcasts, books and articles so that you feel more confident.\n\nTo report what you've been doing to your manager, you can reflect at the end of the week, or add to your report during the week so that the end of the week email is really easy.\n\nWhen working remotely, you don’t have face time with your manager and they don't see you working hard in the office. Be available, communicate when you are and aren’t available, and make sure your manager has what they need when they need it.\n\nNever forget the power of the cc!! It's great for visibility, especially when working from home. Use it as an FYI to show your boss what you’re doing and to keep them informed of your work. You can ask your boss how they want you to use the cc. You can adapt your cc to your company culture.\n\nWhat about using the cc when you are complimented? You can always cc on your “thank you” or your can forward them. The easier you make it for your boss, the better.\n\nAnd, if you want to make sure you’re traceable, cc your boss so that when the absent hiring manager says you haven’t found any candidates, your boss has seen that you sent an “I’m here when you’re ready to respond” email, and can have your back.\n\nSometimes the hardest time of managing up is when you are coming back from a negative performance perception. People who are open to feedback and are curious about feedback are the ones who get themself off performance plans.\n\nWhen on a PIP, those “what I’m working on” emails are critical. CYA, clarify and make sure you’re on the right track. Be transparent and ask for feedback.","content_html":"We’re excited to talk in this episode about reverse management, or managing up. We’re going to get into it, and talk about how to work with a manager, how to talk with your manager, and how to excel even when your manager isn’t very good at managing...
\n\nWe discuss how sometimes people don’t manage up well because they don’t want to be a burden, but rule #1 is to communicate and sometimes over-communicate. A CC on an email is an FYI, and it helps your boss have the information they may need.
\n\nWhen a manager doesn’t know what is going on, they ask questions and ask for data to prove work. When they don’t see proof of work, it gets uncomfortable.
\n\nThe point of information is clarity. If you manage up well, the executive team will hear more about you and your projects, and it will benefit your career.
\n\nIf you don’t show your boss your good work, they can’t share it with their boss and therefore you won’t get recognition. Same with if you aren’t doing good work and you need help. Your manager can can help you learn and can cover for you to others...
\n\nIf you look at your week and your goals based on what you think is expected, you can share that with your boss to make sure you are doing what they need you to do. A quick touch-base at the beginning and end of the week ensure alignment.
\n\nRegular updates help your manager know you, how you work, what you do and what’s on your plate. By setting expectations, you open up lines of communication for hard discussions around expectations.
\n\nIt’s important to mention long-term projects periodically to make sure your manager knows that it’s on your radar.
\n\nWe don’t all remember everything going on, so a reminder is a good paper trail to keep them posted. Sending the email is a CYA -- whether or not your manager opens the email is up to them.
\n\nWe think it’s so important to have 1:1 meetings between employees and managers to build trust and communication. As an employee, you want to be prepared and your weekly update can be the basis for that meeting.
\n\nManagers need to have a “manageable” number of direct reports so that they can meet regularly. When managers get regular status reports, they can have fewer 1:1s and use them as career mentorship, expectation setting, and other high-level uses of that time vs communicating status updates.
\n\nWhat should you do when your manager is a 1:1 canceller?
\n\nIf you’re a manager who is unsure of yourself as a manager, read some books like Dare to Lead by Brene Brown. Educate yourself with podcasts, books and articles so that you feel more confident.
\n\nTo report what you've been doing to your manager, you can reflect at the end of the week, or add to your report during the week so that the end of the week email is really easy.
\n\nWhen working remotely, you don’t have face time with your manager and they don't see you working hard in the office. Be available, communicate when you are and aren’t available, and make sure your manager has what they need when they need it.
\n\nNever forget the power of the cc!! It's great for visibility, especially when working from home. Use it as an FYI to show your boss what you’re doing and to keep them informed of your work. You can ask your boss how they want you to use the cc. You can adapt your cc to your company culture.
\n\nWhat about using the cc when you are complimented? You can always cc on your “thank you” or your can forward them. The easier you make it for your boss, the better.
\n\nAnd, if you want to make sure you’re traceable, cc your boss so that when the absent hiring manager says you haven’t found any candidates, your boss has seen that you sent an “I’m here when you’re ready to respond” email, and can have your back.
\n\nSometimes the hardest time of managing up is when you are coming back from a negative performance perception. People who are open to feedback and are curious about feedback are the ones who get themself off performance plans.
\n\nWhen on a PIP, those “what I’m working on” emails are critical. CYA, clarify and make sure you’re on the right track. Be transparent and ask for feedback.
","summary":"Liz & Kat talk about managing up to your management.","date_published":"2020-06-23T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/1d23c2c1-a65b-47f3-8773-2083a91ea4b6.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":22184003,"duration_in_seconds":1848}]},{"id":"473c3704-e887-4076-af22-e859356eb21f","title":"Episode 38: Write a Resume that Gets Past the Screeners with Katrina Kibben","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/38-write-a-resume-that-gets-past-the-screeners-katrina-kibben","content_text":"We welcome Katrina Kibben in this episode of Real Job Talk to talk with us. We're always glad to find another Kat! Katrina is a writer and recruiting professional who has built Three Ears Media around her interests in communication and marketing to teach companies how to excel around employment branding, writing for recruiting, and representing themselves with authenticity.\n\nKatrina came into recruiting by accident after an executive met her while she was tutoring his daughter. She took her writing background and wrote copy around recruiting. Now she spends the majority of her time teaching recruiters to write in a way that will resonate with candidates.\n\nKatrina’s realness drives her consultancy in helping her clients also be real in how they describe themselves to potential employees. When we’re real with our current and potential employees, we keep them and attract the people who will thrive within our companies.\n\nKatrina respects recruiters, but admits that most recruiters don’t know the role past the job posting. So here are some of her tips for resume-writing.\n\nRecruiters are busy; they spend 4 seconds on your resume to see if it matches. If you're a job seeker trying to get to that busy recruiter and have them notice your resume, make the words in your resume match as closely as close to possible to their job posting. Resumes are marketing tools; they need to look like the job description for the role you are looking for.\n\nWhen writing a job description or resume, use Google Trends to make sure your titles match what ever title has the most search volume. \n\nPeople often go WAY too far back on their resume. Those college jobs aren’t necessary, and length is important. A concise resume shows that you know how to tell a story. A long resume makes you look like a job hopper. Also, no need to point out that you know MS Word or other skills that are obvious in the job you’ve done. \n\nIf you have a 10 page resume, it reads like you have a hard time editing, and when being able to be precise is a necessary skill, a rambling resume hints that you won’t be able to be concise in your job.\n\nBig tip: use a wordcloud to identify top keywords in a job description and make sure all of those top words stand out in your resume. Get someone to give you an extra 15 seconds by having the words stand out. Recruiters tend to look at the beginning of the resume, at your job titles, and then also the weird stuff you list at the bottom….\n\nWe talk about Katrina’s own job searches. In her last search, she thought of different roles around her core areas -- writing, branding, marketing, and recruiting. She started with creating a basic marketing resume, pulling words and concepts from other job descriptions and postings out there to create her base resume. Then from the marketing resume, she took the base and tweaked it for content marketing, and then again tweaking it for all the related roles she was interested in.\n\nDon’t feel like a good writer? Steal from job descriptions. Do voice to text talking about the work you’ve done, and think about what you’re most proud of. You want your resume to reflect you and your voice and to represent you authentically. Get the words out even if you don't think you're a good writer. \n\nStarting a new job search? BLS.gov shows you what sectors are hiring and can help you figure out where to look in a tough job market. You can go to a job board or Facebook group and search for “now hiring” and see who is hiring. We talked about new grads doing customer service and how it’s a great new job.\n\nWork your network. Call people who have worked with you and who you would consider working with again and check in. Ask them what they remember about you and who is out there who they would want to work with again. It will lead to your next role. \n\nYou can’t make those calls in panic mode. If you’re panicked, call your friends, not your network. Fake it until you make it if you are scared, because nobody wants to put someone in crisis out to their network.\n\nDo your research about companies: look at Glassdoor, evaluate your fit against their “about us” page and see if you can see yourself there.\n\nIf you're a hiring for a role, how to you create a great job posting? Write a pitch: \"You help (blank) do (blank) by (blank)ing. Write your must haves; e.g., \"Don’t apply if you don’t have these 3 things.\" Take the “about us” marketing language of your company's web site and then make it about people. Then write what the person is doing now that will make them prepared for taking on the role you're trying to fill.\n\nKatrina’s book: The Job Post Writing Workbook She also teaches on-demand courses about writing to get promoted and job descriptions and more.\n\nFind Katrina everywhere at Katrinakibben (she’s the only one!).\n\n\nThree Ears Media\n@KatrinaKibben on Twitter\nKatrina Kibben on LinkedIn\n","content_html":"We welcome Katrina Kibben in this episode of Real Job Talk to talk with us. We're always glad to find another Kat! Katrina is a writer and recruiting professional who has built Three Ears Media around her interests in communication and marketing to teach companies how to excel around employment branding, writing for recruiting, and representing themselves with authenticity.
\n\nKatrina came into recruiting by accident after an executive met her while she was tutoring his daughter. She took her writing background and wrote copy around recruiting. Now she spends the majority of her time teaching recruiters to write in a way that will resonate with candidates.
\n\nKatrina’s realness drives her consultancy in helping her clients also be real in how they describe themselves to potential employees. When we’re real with our current and potential employees, we keep them and attract the people who will thrive within our companies.
\n\nKatrina respects recruiters, but admits that most recruiters don’t know the role past the job posting. So here are some of her tips for resume-writing.
\n\nRecruiters are busy; they spend 4 seconds on your resume to see if it matches. If you're a job seeker trying to get to that busy recruiter and have them notice your resume, make the words in your resume match as closely as close to possible to their job posting. Resumes are marketing tools; they need to look like the job description for the role you are looking for.
\n\nWhen writing a job description or resume, use Google Trends to make sure your titles match what ever title has the most search volume.
\n\nPeople often go WAY too far back on their resume. Those college jobs aren’t necessary, and length is important. A concise resume shows that you know how to tell a story. A long resume makes you look like a job hopper. Also, no need to point out that you know MS Word or other skills that are obvious in the job you’ve done.
\n\nIf you have a 10 page resume, it reads like you have a hard time editing, and when being able to be precise is a necessary skill, a rambling resume hints that you won’t be able to be concise in your job.
\n\nBig tip: use a wordcloud to identify top keywords in a job description and make sure all of those top words stand out in your resume. Get someone to give you an extra 15 seconds by having the words stand out. Recruiters tend to look at the beginning of the resume, at your job titles, and then also the weird stuff you list at the bottom….
\n\nWe talk about Katrina’s own job searches. In her last search, she thought of different roles around her core areas -- writing, branding, marketing, and recruiting. She started with creating a basic marketing resume, pulling words and concepts from other job descriptions and postings out there to create her base resume. Then from the marketing resume, she took the base and tweaked it for content marketing, and then again tweaking it for all the related roles she was interested in.
\n\nDon’t feel like a good writer? Steal from job descriptions. Do voice to text talking about the work you’ve done, and think about what you’re most proud of. You want your resume to reflect you and your voice and to represent you authentically. Get the words out even if you don't think you're a good writer.
\n\nStarting a new job search? BLS.gov shows you what sectors are hiring and can help you figure out where to look in a tough job market. You can go to a job board or Facebook group and search for “now hiring” and see who is hiring. We talked about new grads doing customer service and how it’s a great new job.
\n\nWork your network. Call people who have worked with you and who you would consider working with again and check in. Ask them what they remember about you and who is out there who they would want to work with again. It will lead to your next role.
\n\nYou can’t make those calls in panic mode. If you’re panicked, call your friends, not your network. Fake it until you make it if you are scared, because nobody wants to put someone in crisis out to their network.
\n\nDo your research about companies: look at Glassdoor, evaluate your fit against their “about us” page and see if you can see yourself there.
\n\nIf you're a hiring for a role, how to you create a great job posting? Write a pitch: "You help (blank) do (blank) by (blank)ing. Write your must haves; e.g., "Don’t apply if you don’t have these 3 things." Take the “about us” marketing language of your company's web site and then make it about people. Then write what the person is doing now that will make them prepared for taking on the role you're trying to fill.
\n\nKatrina’s book: The Job Post Writing Workbook She also teaches on-demand courses about writing to get promoted and job descriptions and more.
\n\nFind Katrina everywhere at Katrinakibben (she’s the only one!).
\n\nJason Treu talks with Liz & Kat about building teams, trust, social wealth, and his game, Cards Against Mundanity.
\n\nThis week Liz and Kat welcome Jason Treu, author of the book Social Wealth, whose goal is to help teams get to know each other. He gives us his advixe to building a career with real connections, including telling us about his game that's designed to help you start making those connections, Cards Against Mundanity, .
\n\nJason started his career in Silicon Valley, working with companies like Apple and eBay. He saw great leaders doing all types of things, and now does executive coaching, leadership training, teamwork and communications, building trust. He also works on the HR side on collaboration and teamwork.
\n\nHe was working as a VP of Marketing when he started coaching and proving out his model for building great teams, and eventually he scaled the business and set out on his own.
\n\nWe asked what Jason believes makes a great team. His answer: building connections build trust and great teams. Unfortunately, many leaders who have built great teams don’t know how they did it, and don’t know how to do it again. People all need to build better relationships. Great performances come from teams that have worked to build trust.
\n\nWe ask about socialization at work, and Jason feels that people today look to connect with people from work, make friends there, and have a purpose. It's not the perks at work that attract people.
\n\nWe discuss soft skills and practicing them. Great leaders need strong soft skills, but people don’t spend time developing them. Leaders need to be held accountable for their own soft skills as well as developing in them in other and upholding the team culture.
\n\nJason has introduced his game, Cards Against Mundanity, to over 30,000 people to create bonds and trust with people which can be done at any level.
\n\nPeople crave connection. and they make those connections with other people who they have gotten to know and trust. That's when they can take their armor off. You can use the cards with anyone who you want to get to know better. If you show you care, people will assume you have their back. They will want to work with you if they know they can count on you.
\n\nIntroverts love Jason’s game because it cuts the small talk and gets to the meat of the conversation where they want to be and where they can create those meaningful connections.
\n\n“Your job as a manager/leader is for someone to take your job because then you’ll have somewhere to go.”
\n\nJason’s book Social Wealth is a blueprint to making connections, inspired by Keith Ferrazzi’s book How to Never Eat Alone. Jason wanted a quick and dirty guide to helping people get results learning how to meet people, go to conferences, andget to know people from front to back. You have to meet a lot of people to find your own tribe.
\n\nJason Treu on Twitter: @jasontreu
\nCards Against Mundanity
\nSocial Wealth: How to Build Extraordinary Relationships By Transforming the Way We Live, Love, Lead and Network
Can you find a "career peer" - a partner for deep work - at work? Emily Kurze and Nate Kartchner met at work and began to collaborate on projects, on personal and professional growth, and eventually came together with a business collaboration. They combine personal and business growth in their own podcast, Good. Working. Order.
\n\nThis week Emily Kurze and Nate Kartchner talk with Kat. Emily and Nate are colleagues and friends who met at work and now collaborate as business partners.
\n\nNate: Has been working for 15 years in marketing, mostly in digital.
\nEmily: A recovering field biologist who has been in marketing for 9 years in program, campaign and content marketing.
Nate and Emily started working together about 5 years ago. At first, their different styles caused friction: Nate had been getting results by doing his own thing, and Emily was there to instill process. They began to work more closely and effectively together over time at that workplace, and after leaving, they now collaborate on consulting and other side projects.
\n\nOne aspect of Nate and Emily’s effectiveness at collaboration is that difference in styles. They complement each other, which helps them with decision-making by seeing other angles.
\n\nAlthough Nate and Emily both have full time jobs, they started a “think tank for ideas,” OSA Ventures, to work on projects that are interesting to them. Their first projects are a podcast, Good Working Order, that is growing into a podcast network, Megamouth Radio, alongside a marketing consultancy, Megamouth Marketing.
\n\nBecause they have “day jobs”, Nate and Emily only take consulting jobs that bring them joy and challenge. Their business has a fluid roadmap based on their availability, their interest and their passions.
\n\nNate and Emily’s podcast, Good Working Order, focuses on self-improvement and growth without sacrificing yourself. They always want to be better -- emotionally, psychologically, professionally -- and the podcast helps them make each other better.
\n\nAnother key to Emily and Nate’s success is that they stay in very close contact, so when they do meet, they don’t have to catch each other up. They have achieved greater depth in their relationship and in their problem solving because they don’t have to deal with minutia.
\n\nNate and Emily often do a “walk and talk,” where they talk on the phone and think while in motion.
\n\nThey also have a book club together, where they read the same books and then discuss them. These books now provide a common language and frame of reference for them to use when working together. This is especially true around uncomfortable conversations and negotiations; it helps formalize the space to be safe and discuss tough things. They try to end every conversation, even the tough ones, feeling better about things.
\n\nTwo book recommendations:
\n\nNate shares that his friendship and relationship with Emily has definitely helped him to be better, especially the way Emily pushes him and helps him think through problems. Her insights and their differences help him see things from a different side of marketing, and that creates a lot of value.
\n\nEmily fashions herself a work clairvoyant -- she sees patterns in the workplace, and Nate helped her see how she could be decisive based on that gift.
\n\nLike any relationship, Nate and Emily’s is built on trust, and that trust is built every day. They found that trust while working on a huge project. They didn’t want the other to be alone without resources in that project, and they came together to collaborate and support each other. “Here’s someone pulling for me as much as I’m pulling for them.” They say to look for a mirror who pushes you, stands up for you, and listens.
\n\nKnowing each other’s worlds well enough to be able to cheer each other on from a knowledgeable place is what makes a career peer relationship work. When your peer knows your job, they can give you better, deeper feedback. A peer also needs to respect your work and respect and like you as a person. Nate always found Emily to be smart and respected her feedback.
\n\nHowegver, someone who is just a cheerleader, and who doesn’t challenge you and hold you accountable, isn’t going to push you to make you stronger and better. As Nate and Emily have supported each other in stretching, they have really realized that they had something special together that they need to help others discover.
\n\nHow did they figure out how to go into business together? They had to talk about a lot of things -- money, expectations, thoughts and hopes, and vision -- and then had to keep having those conversations with each other. They had to change their vision and ideas to find product-market fit -- with themselves.
\n\nEmily and Nate's projects:
\n\nIn this episode, Liz and Kat tackle some questions about communications with coworkers in this session with Vince Wood, a Houston-based IT professional and podcaster.
\n\nVince brought to the session a few questions and scenarios around effective communication within a team, taking into account their different and unique perspectives and experiences. We also talk about the general challenges of working with others and how to optimally communicate with others in this episode.
\n\nVince framed his overall problem this way: bringing people to work together effectively is a challenge, specifically getting a team to gel to accomplish their shared goals. People come into a team with different perspectives, different experiences, and different styles.
\n\nWe talk about building teams and setting expectations inside htem. Knowing the people on your team and how they like to interact, and knowing how to set expectations is critical to working with different people. The leader of the team must set expectations, giving the lay of the land, setting goals, and telling everyone how their role contributes to the overall picture. This sets the team up for success.
\n\nOne of the challenges with being a manager, of course, is that often new managers don't receive training, and this forces them to learn how to manage teams by trial and error. And even if they are trained, we've all met managers who don't seem very good at managing.
\n\nVince came to Liz and Kat with three challenging scenarios that he's seenat work, and wanted feedback from Liz and Kat on how to tackle these tricky challanges.
\n\nChallenge #1: you want to support a fellow team member in a challanging meeting, so you quietly slip them a message with some tips, but then they get offended. What should you do?
\n\nKat's take was that, first of all, you apologize and explain yourself and that you weren't meaning to offend; then you have conversation around what they would want from you in the future.
\n\nExplaining why you stepped in when someone was asked to answer something you didn’t think they knew will help them understand your mindset and why you did what you did. Vince then asks about strange reactions when people DO know each other well. And Kat and Liz point out that there may be previous air to clear, and that even if people work together every day, they may not feel safe with each other.
\n\nVince’s Challenge #2: around coming into work, teammates with differing work schedules, and asking teammates for help immediately as they enter the office, without giving them a chance to get settled.
\n\nKat and Liz point out that it's important to respect people’s rhythms, understand that they may have different schedules, constraints, work priorities, and cycles of productivity. You should ask when they are available to help, not just grab them as they enter the office in the morning. Organize group work around when everyone is in, and also trust that people can rise to the occasion when they are called upon. As adults, we can ask people for what we need, such as saying “can this wait 5 minutes and then I’ll be all ears?”.
\n\nVince’s 3rd challenge was around having a coworker who is always talking about the way they did things at their last job, without regard to how that fits with the current situation. We talk about how to approach them to see if they're willing to reexamine how they're seeing the situation. Liz also muses that this situation could be because someone is trying to feel knowledgable or less insecure about their current role, and we encourage Vince to kindly point out the differences and ask the coworker to problem-solve in this new environment.
\n\nHow do you help someone with problem solving? Maybe recommend a good book that helped you, but come from a place of caring and helping vs telling and commanding.
\n\nVince recommends Mark Manson’s “The Subtle Art of Not Giving An F” to colleagues when he senses they are burning out.
\n\nVince finally shares with us his 3 general take-aways for difficult interpersonal situtions: (1) communicate, even overcommunicate; (2) learn to listen; and (3) have patience. Liz and Kat confirm that lots of communcation - and paying attention to individual styles and preferences of communication - as well as recapping conversations are all great ways to make sure things get heard.
\n\nRecap emails after a meeting, including deliverables and assignments, allow people to ask questions outside of the big room. This keeps everyone on the same page and also helps people who learn in different ways to ensure understanding.
\n\nThanks, Vince, for coming on the show and posing some challanging scenarios for Liz and Kat to tackle.
\n\nVince Wood is @mvwood on Twitter
\nVince's IT Reality Podcast: website and @ITRealityUS on Twitter
If you would like to have a live coaching session with Liz and Kat on the podcast, just contact us. We have a lot of fun with these.
","summary":"Liz and Kat tackle some questions about communications with coworkers in this session with Vince Wood.","date_published":"2020-04-28T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/60dd2d48-e6e6-48fb-9c3b-bf64c258a096.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":33643926,"duration_in_seconds":2403}]},{"id":"c7b6225b-a794-4798-a097-cdac68899f5e","title":"Episode 34: How a small tech company competes for talent: with Scott Loughmiller","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/34-small-tech-company-competes-for-talent-with-scott-loughmiller","content_text":"How does a tech company in San Francisco compete with Google & Facebook to get and keep the best talent? Kat and Liz talk with Scale Computing's Scott Loughmiller.\n\nThis week we welcome Scott Loughmiller, the chief product officer and co-founder of Scale Computing. He is a serial start-up person who has focused his career on engineering management. He has worked with his co-founders at Scale several times, and has hired a lot of employees many times over. Scott has passion around finding and retaining a great team, and he has a great track record of doing just that. By Scott's estimation, over the last five years, he's had only three regrettable losses on his team of over 30. All this in the city of San Francisco, competing against places like Google and Facebook and thousands of smaller startups that can dangle a lot in front of engineers that they want to hire.\n\nHow does Scott do it? Scott “cheats” by paying people well and keeping up with the market to make sure his people are paid well, targeting to pay over the top of 75% of the market. He wants to promote people when they are at the top of their current range, which then encourages job growth. He also thinks that he has a better feel of what the consequences of attrition is than an HR person who is more removed from the work.\n\nOne of Scott' s keys to retention is making sure people have clear career paths. As an example, moving people from support or QA to engineering can help them build both skills and purpose in their career. A key to retaining employees is understanding where someone wants to go.\n\nHow does Scott hire? His process has evolved over the years. Candidates start with a fairly standard hiring process -- a technical phone screen and other conversations. For one of the final phases, Scott stole a trick from universities and how they judge candidates for research and teaching positions. The candidates for engineer roles present a project to the team that they’re experts on. They answer questions, show how they think through things like design decisions, and explain technical concepts. Scott talks through the process and supports them before ethey present, like he would as their manager. His goal is to find the real person and help them present themselves as their real best selves.\n\nThe last step in Scott’s hiring process is that he puts the candidate into a room with some folks from the team and asks them to interview the team, no holds barred and no questions off limits. The success rate of hiring went up after Scott implemented this, especially when he put newer people in the room to answer questions.\n\nScott encourages people to ask the following when interviewing: Why do you work here? What is your day like? What do you like or not like?\n\nHow do you find out about company values? Ask about how they play out in day-to-day life at a company, and listen to hear what people say. If employees can’t talk about how they live company values, they may be more paper values than real ones.\n\nIt’s a team decision to make the final decision. Scott does remind his teams of what they can expect of people at different levels - don't apply the same criteria to hire junior people that you'd use to hire senior people!\n\nScott thinks that performance management takes an investment in knowing your people. Scale does a formal review annually, with explicit seniority levels and attributes expected of each level for an engineer. Each engineer knows where they are for each attribute, and when they’re above in all attributes, they know they’re ready for promotion. Right after promotion, they should be below or at expectations because they’re learning. Scott and his team looks at raises and promotions every quarter.\n\n“My job is to set up framework for employees to kick ass.”\n\nTransparency is key to hiring and retention. For instance, Scott tells engineers who want to work by the early Facebook motto, \"go fast and break things,\" that his team at Scale Computing likely isn't going to be the right place for them. If the person wants to build high-quality, foundational software, then they’re going to be very happy at Scale.\n\n“You can’t stay at a place for 10 years if you don’t have work/life balance”. If you want to retain people and build a successful company, you need to continuously and sustainably deliver without burning out your people.\n\nScott Loughmiller on LinkedIn","content_html":"How does a tech company in San Francisco compete with Google & Facebook to get and keep the best talent? Kat and Liz talk with Scale Computing's Scott Loughmiller.
\n\nThis week we welcome Scott Loughmiller, the chief product officer and co-founder of Scale Computing. He is a serial start-up person who has focused his career on engineering management. He has worked with his co-founders at Scale several times, and has hired a lot of employees many times over. Scott has passion around finding and retaining a great team, and he has a great track record of doing just that. By Scott's estimation, over the last five years, he's had only three regrettable losses on his team of over 30. All this in the city of San Francisco, competing against places like Google and Facebook and thousands of smaller startups that can dangle a lot in front of engineers that they want to hire.
\n\nHow does Scott do it? Scott “cheats” by paying people well and keeping up with the market to make sure his people are paid well, targeting to pay over the top of 75% of the market. He wants to promote people when they are at the top of their current range, which then encourages job growth. He also thinks that he has a better feel of what the consequences of attrition is than an HR person who is more removed from the work.
\n\nOne of Scott' s keys to retention is making sure people have clear career paths. As an example, moving people from support or QA to engineering can help them build both skills and purpose in their career. A key to retaining employees is understanding where someone wants to go.
\n\nHow does Scott hire? His process has evolved over the years. Candidates start with a fairly standard hiring process -- a technical phone screen and other conversations. For one of the final phases, Scott stole a trick from universities and how they judge candidates for research and teaching positions. The candidates for engineer roles present a project to the team that they’re experts on. They answer questions, show how they think through things like design decisions, and explain technical concepts. Scott talks through the process and supports them before ethey present, like he would as their manager. His goal is to find the real person and help them present themselves as their real best selves.
\n\nThe last step in Scott’s hiring process is that he puts the candidate into a room with some folks from the team and asks them to interview the team, no holds barred and no questions off limits. The success rate of hiring went up after Scott implemented this, especially when he put newer people in the room to answer questions.
\n\nScott encourages people to ask the following when interviewing: Why do you work here? What is your day like? What do you like or not like?
\n\nHow do you find out about company values? Ask about how they play out in day-to-day life at a company, and listen to hear what people say. If employees can’t talk about how they live company values, they may be more paper values than real ones.
\n\nIt’s a team decision to make the final decision. Scott does remind his teams of what they can expect of people at different levels - don't apply the same criteria to hire junior people that you'd use to hire senior people!
\n\nScott thinks that performance management takes an investment in knowing your people. Scale does a formal review annually, with explicit seniority levels and attributes expected of each level for an engineer. Each engineer knows where they are for each attribute, and when they’re above in all attributes, they know they’re ready for promotion. Right after promotion, they should be below or at expectations because they’re learning. Scott and his team looks at raises and promotions every quarter.
\n\n“My job is to set up framework for employees to kick ass.”
\n\nTransparency is key to hiring and retention. For instance, Scott tells engineers who want to work by the early Facebook motto, "go fast and break things," that his team at Scale Computing likely isn't going to be the right place for them. If the person wants to build high-quality, foundational software, then they’re going to be very happy at Scale.
\n\n“You can’t stay at a place for 10 years if you don’t have work/life balance”. If you want to retain people and build a successful company, you need to continuously and sustainably deliver without burning out your people.
\n\n","summary":"How does a tech company in San Francisco compete with Google & Facebook to get and keep the best talent? Kat and Liz talk with Scale Computing's Scott Loughmiller.","date_published":"2020-04-14T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/c7b6225b-a794-4798-a097-cdac68899f5e.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":34715584,"duration_in_seconds":2892}]},{"id":"01209fe9-07df-40d2-8aa2-d9f0eb6150eb","title":"Episode 33: Taking a sabbatical wherever it leads with Becky Elliott","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/33-coaching-influencer-freelance-writer-becky-elliot","content_text":"This week, we're doing a live career coaching session. We welcome Becky Elliott, a technologist and writer who is looking at what comes next in her career.\n\nThe career coaching session was recorded live and unscripted, but this time we weren't talking about a book or specific topic - we were tackling a real person thinking out loud about where they are and where they want to go. We thank Becky for coming on the show with vulnerabilty and honesty. The episode was recorded during a Stay At Home order in March 2020 from our homes in California, Texas, and Virginia. \n\nBecky is an IT professional, and she had started a 2-month sabbatical as she figured out what was next for her. Now, six months later, she's juggling our current stay-at-home environment with her husband also working from home, home-schooling , and freelance writing -- and also thinking about a full-time role in the future that incorporates her technical skills with her writing and blogging.\n\nWriting, both about personal development as well as technical topics, has become Becky’s passion.\n\nBecky is an active part of the VMware vExpert technical community, and has spent a lot of her sabbatical at conferences like VMworld, Pure Accelerate, and NetApp Insight as a blogger and influencer. She gets a lot of energy from these community events. \n\nShe gets invited to come to these events, and sometimes even gets paid to write some blog posts at the event, but she feels she's not a \"schmoozer\" -- and like many people, she isn't comfortable doing a lot of selling to potential clients to get paid gigs at these events. On the other hand, Kat has met Becky at several of these events, and she has seen Becky act as a connector. Kat also notes that Becky is well-liked in the community, and her role as a connector may be one reason.\n\nIdeally, Beck wants a job as a creator: creating content and blogging. She also loves the idea of championing other bloggers as some sort of community manager. She is inspired by Sam Moulton, who manages the the NetApp A-Team Advocacy Program, because she is a cheerleader, coach, and connector who makes opportunities for the members of the program. \n\nAt a career coaching event with Becky at a conference last year, Kat made an offhand comment about \"whether you stay in tech or not.\" Suddenly Becky found herself contemplating the novel idea of leaving tech completely, but after thinking about it, realized that tech eally was home to her and she does want to stay in this area for her career. The innovation and change in tech, the ability to figure out how things work, and how tech continually helps to make things better are all things that appeal to Becky.\n\nWe talk about Becky’s writing portfolio, her websites and how she presents her writing, her many domain names, and how to best market herself. We advise Becky to consolidate and use one site or a service like Linktree to consolidate all the different information that she shares in different places. Make it easy for people to find you and all the information about your projects -- that's true for any audience, but especially true for a busy recruiter or hiring manager!\n\nBecky’s #1 priority for her next role is to really like the people she works with and the product they're producing. We counsel her to use her active network and tell them that she’s ready for her next opportunity. She has been looking at Twitter and Slack channels to hear about roles directly from people who are hiring. \n\nWe challenge Becky to put together her \"must-have\" and \"nice-to-have\" lists and to go to her network with authenticity. There could easily be a friend-of-a-friend or a reader of her blog who would love to help her find the next role.\n\nBecky’s current list of must-have's is cenered around values, not specific technologies she wants to work with. This is great, because it's clear that her values are important to her. We gave some examples about how to ask questions to test company values. You need to see how they show up in everyday work life. \n\nWe think it’s important to have a list of values and also a list of skills. Ask people who know you what would be important for you in a job. Giving yourself plenty of time to put together your list is really helpful so that you can think and reflect. And write your list in pencil -- because it’s a living document, and things can change, especially now!\n\nBecky Elliiott on Twitter: https://twitter.com/beckylelliott\n\nBecky’s web site: https://beckyelliott.com\n\n*If you'd like to partcipate in a live coaching session with Liz and Kat, just get in touch! *","content_html":"This week, we're doing a live career coaching session. We welcome Becky Elliott, a technologist and writer who is looking at what comes next in her career.
\n\nThe career coaching session was recorded live and unscripted, but this time we weren't talking about a book or specific topic - we were tackling a real person thinking out loud about where they are and where they want to go. We thank Becky for coming on the show with vulnerabilty and honesty. The episode was recorded during a Stay At Home order in March 2020 from our homes in California, Texas, and Virginia.
\n\nBecky is an IT professional, and she had started a 2-month sabbatical as she figured out what was next for her. Now, six months later, she's juggling our current stay-at-home environment with her husband also working from home, home-schooling , and freelance writing -- and also thinking about a full-time role in the future that incorporates her technical skills with her writing and blogging.
\n\nWriting, both about personal development as well as technical topics, has become Becky’s passion.
\n\nBecky is an active part of the VMware vExpert technical community, and has spent a lot of her sabbatical at conferences like VMworld, Pure Accelerate, and NetApp Insight as a blogger and influencer. She gets a lot of energy from these community events.
\n\nShe gets invited to come to these events, and sometimes even gets paid to write some blog posts at the event, but she feels she's not a "schmoozer" -- and like many people, she isn't comfortable doing a lot of selling to potential clients to get paid gigs at these events. On the other hand, Kat has met Becky at several of these events, and she has seen Becky act as a connector. Kat also notes that Becky is well-liked in the community, and her role as a connector may be one reason.
\n\nIdeally, Beck wants a job as a creator: creating content and blogging. She also loves the idea of championing other bloggers as some sort of community manager. She is inspired by Sam Moulton, who manages the the NetApp A-Team Advocacy Program, because she is a cheerleader, coach, and connector who makes opportunities for the members of the program.
\n\nAt a career coaching event with Becky at a conference last year, Kat made an offhand comment about "whether you stay in tech or not." Suddenly Becky found herself contemplating the novel idea of leaving tech completely, but after thinking about it, realized that tech eally was home to her and she does want to stay in this area for her career. The innovation and change in tech, the ability to figure out how things work, and how tech continually helps to make things better are all things that appeal to Becky.
\n\nWe talk about Becky’s writing portfolio, her websites and how she presents her writing, her many domain names, and how to best market herself. We advise Becky to consolidate and use one site or a service like Linktree to consolidate all the different information that she shares in different places. Make it easy for people to find you and all the information about your projects -- that's true for any audience, but especially true for a busy recruiter or hiring manager!
\n\nBecky’s #1 priority for her next role is to really like the people she works with and the product they're producing. We counsel her to use her active network and tell them that she’s ready for her next opportunity. She has been looking at Twitter and Slack channels to hear about roles directly from people who are hiring.
\n\nWe challenge Becky to put together her "must-have" and "nice-to-have" lists and to go to her network with authenticity. There could easily be a friend-of-a-friend or a reader of her blog who would love to help her find the next role.
\n\nBecky’s current list of must-have's is cenered around values, not specific technologies she wants to work with. This is great, because it's clear that her values are important to her. We gave some examples about how to ask questions to test company values. You need to see how they show up in everyday work life.
\n\nWe think it’s important to have a list of values and also a list of skills. Ask people who know you what would be important for you in a job. Giving yourself plenty of time to put together your list is really helpful so that you can think and reflect. And write your list in pencil -- because it’s a living document, and things can change, especially now!
\n\nBecky Elliiott on Twitter: https://twitter.com/beckylelliott
\n\nBecky’s web site: https://beckyelliott.com
\n\n*If you'd like to partcipate in a live coaching session with Liz and Kat, just get in touch! *
","summary":"A live career coaching session: Becky Elliott, technologist, writer, and influencer joins Kat and Liz for some real job talk!","date_published":"2020-03-31T06:30:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/01209fe9-07df-40d2-8aa2-d9f0eb6150eb.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":37849111,"duration_in_seconds":2703}]},{"id":"9bfa8a3b-14dc-49fd-86ee-b01cc57d78b6","title":"Episode 32: Working from home","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/32-working-from-home","content_text":"This week, we talk about working from home. A lot of people are suddenly working from home because of the current coronavirus pandemic. A lot of teams are suddenly 100% remote in cultures where this wasn't a normal pratice, and a lot of managers are suddenly trying to manage those teams.\n\nWe're also sending our thoughts to those who are feeling displaced, uncertain, underemployed, or even unemployed. Keeping things together and at home is going to help all of us. \n\nBoth Liz and Kat have worked from home for many years. We have some things we've learnwed along the way. Some of these may be obvious, and some may not work for you and your work style. As Kat says for most advice, \"Take what you like and leave the rest.\"\n\nWith all of this, remember to give yourself and others some grace. This is not a normal work from home situation. It's stressful, both work and home processes are new and changing, you're improvising, and you're doing your best.\n\nKat’s top Work From Home Tips: 1. Establish a schedule that includes self care, and set up boundaries for yourself. 2. Shower and dress for work: you’re probably going to be on video! 3. Be available during work hours and share your calendar to show what you’re doing (and when those work hours are!) 3. Stay connected.\n\nLiz’s top WFH Tips: 1. Shower and get dressed. 2. Get out of the house at least once a day; make sure to get your steps in! 3. Have “busy” signals for your co-habitants - the other people in your house. 3. Try to eat and drink healthy to feel more like yourself.\n\nOther tips:\n\nMake a stop time that ends your traditional work day. Maybe make a schedule with decisive breaks and routine. Don't forget to stand up, stretch, and eat!\n\nWith these uncertain and stressful times, try to be positive and a calming influence on your team and your family. We can’t control what we can’t control, but what you can do is to keep yourself grounded and positive.\n\nWe have whole teams suddenly finding themselves at home. Our #1 tip? Be face-to-face as much as possible. Turn the video on to feel connected. The more you can engage, the better.\n\nCommunication is key! Overcommunicate, if necessary, to make sure you have the clarity of what you are expected and what you’re expected to do. Talk things through and try to make those cubicle conversations happen.\n\nThose 1:1 meetings with team members are CRITICAL for making people feel connected and giving them space to ask plenty of questions. Follow up meetings with notes that recap what you discussed, both as a boss and as a team member. Make sure everyone is on the same page. \n\nEstablish new team norms, such as recording team calls. And make fun happen, whether it’s on Slack or in meetings. Keep people communicating and laughing, and managers should join in, too! When managers join in, the team is encouraged to keep going.\n\nRemember that everybody is trying to adapt to this new environment. Be kind and give your team some slack.\n\nEven when you're social distancing or sheltering in place, getting out of the house is important (if it's safe for you to do so.) Go for a walk! Get in the sunshine! There's science behind getting sunshine, for vitamin D and other benefits, and for getting into nature if possible. \n\nWorking from home can get lonely. Be social in any way that works. Call a friend who you haven’t spoken to in a long time. Reconnect with people you’ve lost touch with. Use this time to reach out to friends and family. \n\nWe both work at home with our spouses. It’s so important to have separate spaces when working from home. Set up separate spaces when at all possible. This might be temporary right now, but be creative - one of you can take over a different room, or even a hallway or closet. The ergonomics of improvising a desk out of an ironing board or a side table may not be great, but for many jobs, sharing an office won't work.\n\nAnd then have FUN together when your work days are done.\n\nFind yourself and your kids home without your normal childcare? It’s so hard. Try to take shifts, use TV, and try to use your quarantine village when you have to. (And don't worry about the TV or iPad for now - you'll figure out better systems if this goes on for a long time.)\n\nThe news getting you down? Offset the news with something funny! Maybe it’s I Love Lucy re-runs or finding a new comedy. Try to laugh; it’s good for the soul. And, if something like Twitter is getting you down, put down the phone! \n\nake care of yourselves, and if we can help, please reach out to us at realjobtalk@gmail.com.","content_html":"This week, we talk about working from home. A lot of people are suddenly working from home because of the current coronavirus pandemic. A lot of teams are suddenly 100% remote in cultures where this wasn't a normal pratice, and a lot of managers are suddenly trying to manage those teams.
\n\nWe're also sending our thoughts to those who are feeling displaced, uncertain, underemployed, or even unemployed. Keeping things together and at home is going to help all of us.
\n\nBoth Liz and Kat have worked from home for many years. We have some things we've learnwed along the way. Some of these may be obvious, and some may not work for you and your work style. As Kat says for most advice, "Take what you like and leave the rest."
\n\nWith all of this, remember to give yourself and others some grace. This is not a normal work from home situation. It's stressful, both work and home processes are new and changing, you're improvising, and you're doing your best.
\n\nKat’s top Work From Home Tips: 1. Establish a schedule that includes self care, and set up boundaries for yourself. 2. Shower and dress for work: you’re probably going to be on video! 3. Be available during work hours and share your calendar to show what you’re doing (and when those work hours are!) 3. Stay connected.
\n\nLiz’s top WFH Tips: 1. Shower and get dressed. 2. Get out of the house at least once a day; make sure to get your steps in! 3. Have “busy” signals for your co-habitants - the other people in your house. 3. Try to eat and drink healthy to feel more like yourself.
\n\nOther tips:
\n\nMake a stop time that ends your traditional work day. Maybe make a schedule with decisive breaks and routine. Don't forget to stand up, stretch, and eat!
\n\nWith these uncertain and stressful times, try to be positive and a calming influence on your team and your family. We can’t control what we can’t control, but what you can do is to keep yourself grounded and positive.
\n\nWe have whole teams suddenly finding themselves at home. Our #1 tip? Be face-to-face as much as possible. Turn the video on to feel connected. The more you can engage, the better.
\n\nCommunication is key! Overcommunicate, if necessary, to make sure you have the clarity of what you are expected and what you’re expected to do. Talk things through and try to make those cubicle conversations happen.
\n\nThose 1:1 meetings with team members are CRITICAL for making people feel connected and giving them space to ask plenty of questions. Follow up meetings with notes that recap what you discussed, both as a boss and as a team member. Make sure everyone is on the same page.
\n\nEstablish new team norms, such as recording team calls. And make fun happen, whether it’s on Slack or in meetings. Keep people communicating and laughing, and managers should join in, too! When managers join in, the team is encouraged to keep going.
\n\nRemember that everybody is trying to adapt to this new environment. Be kind and give your team some slack.
\n\nEven when you're social distancing or sheltering in place, getting out of the house is important (if it's safe for you to do so.) Go for a walk! Get in the sunshine! There's science behind getting sunshine, for vitamin D and other benefits, and for getting into nature if possible.
\n\nWorking from home can get lonely. Be social in any way that works. Call a friend who you haven’t spoken to in a long time. Reconnect with people you’ve lost touch with. Use this time to reach out to friends and family.
\n\nWe both work at home with our spouses. It’s so important to have separate spaces when working from home. Set up separate spaces when at all possible. This might be temporary right now, but be creative - one of you can take over a different room, or even a hallway or closet. The ergonomics of improvising a desk out of an ironing board or a side table may not be great, but for many jobs, sharing an office won't work.
\n\nAnd then have FUN together when your work days are done.
\n\nFind yourself and your kids home without your normal childcare? It’s so hard. Try to take shifts, use TV, and try to use your quarantine village when you have to. (And don't worry about the TV or iPad for now - you'll figure out better systems if this goes on for a long time.)
\n\nThe news getting you down? Offset the news with something funny! Maybe it’s I Love Lucy re-runs or finding a new comedy. Try to laugh; it’s good for the soul. And, if something like Twitter is getting you down, put down the phone!
\n\nake care of yourselves, and if we can help, please reach out to us at realjobtalk@gmail.com.
","summary":"Kat and Liz have worked from home for years - they talk about being effective and staying healthy if you and your team are now working from home","date_published":"2020-03-17T15:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/9bfa8a3b-14dc-49fd-86ee-b01cc57d78b6.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":28059591,"duration_in_seconds":2004}]},{"id":"74280cf9-10f5-40be-8aec-6cde9535d758","title":"Episode 31: Career pivot away from corporate to podcasting with Adrienne Garland ","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/31-career-pivot-away-from-corporate-adrienne-garland","content_text":"This episode we welcome Adrienne Garland to RJT. Adrienne is the CEO of She Leads Media, building a community of women entrepreneurs, starting with a successful conference and now adding a new podcast network.\n\nAdrienne started her career in one of the most \"corporate\" parts of corporate America in investment banking and finance in the 1990s. She switched to marketing, media entertainment and technology. She worked her way up through the marketing org chart, working at places like PR Newswire and Price Waterhouse Coopers. \n\nAt PWC, Adrienne had the best career on paper, but it was the worst fit for her because of to a mismatch with her values, and she eventually realized that the right job for her had to be the right fit for who she was. \n\nWe talk about the values fit at work, and asking a potential workplace about their values, and how to ask the right questions to find out how the values a company says they have area actually exemplified in day-to-day life.\n\nSo Adrienne became an entrepreneur.\n\nAs an entrepreneur, there are almost always too many things to do and directions to go. We ask Adrienne how she decides what to do and focus on. Adrienne is helped by her support network of professional friends--mixing the business and personal sides of her life. She talks about the depth of relationships with people who understand her as a business person, entrepreneur and as a mom.\n\nWe also talk about balancing accountability partners as well as mentors that will hold you accountable for reaching your goals.\n\nPivots happen in careers, and Adrienne talks about pivoting over the last 10 years of running She Leads Media. She talks about breaking the structure of corporate life, and how to navigate the world of entrepreneurship, which has no rules or structure. As someone who craves structure, this has been hard, and over the years, Adrienne has had to balance where she wanted to go with what it was possible to accomplish.\n\nShe started the SheLeads conference out of the frustration of not being able to define the roadmap of building her business. She got the conference off the ground successfully and people showed up because of Adrienne's network of existing relationships. Adrienne talks about the importance of treating everyone with respect and trying to create positive relationships.\n\nSheLeads started wth a conferenc,e, and the next step for SheLeads is to launch a podcast network to bring together experts with audiences across media platforms.\n\nThe right people to join the 'SheLeads community are women who are in the 2nd chapter of their career journey, looking to launch and grow a business quickly. \n\nBeing vulnerable as a woman who owns a business is uncomfortable but it is real. There’s a struggle between being a forceful leader, being direct, and worrying about being a jerky bitch. As a woman, we struggle with the balance of not wanting to be mean but also wanting to be heard. Different people handle communication differently -- direct communicators call out the elephant in the room. Being able to talk about your communication style, and the reasons you have for it, will get your team farther faster.\n\nNext we tackled the importance of coming together with similar businesses- Adrienne tells us about a leader from her conference who brought 3 women with alcohol businesses together so that they could pool resources, collaborate, and get the combined power of their distribution, and how they were able to track KPIs of how things have improved since coming together.\n\nFinally, we talk about finding balance and keeping everything together. Adrienne takes time daily to meditate (or at least take 3 deep breaths), get outside into some fresh air, and regular exercise. And the fun of exercising with a friend…\n\nThe next SheLeads conference will be in October of 2020, and the SheLeads Podcast Network can be found at https://sheleads.podcastnetwork.io/","content_html":"This episode we welcome Adrienne Garland to RJT. Adrienne is the CEO of She Leads Media, building a community of women entrepreneurs, starting with a successful conference and now adding a new podcast network.
\n\nAdrienne started her career in one of the most "corporate" parts of corporate America in investment banking and finance in the 1990s. She switched to marketing, media entertainment and technology. She worked her way up through the marketing org chart, working at places like PR Newswire and Price Waterhouse Coopers.
\n\nAt PWC, Adrienne had the best career on paper, but it was the worst fit for her because of to a mismatch with her values, and she eventually realized that the right job for her had to be the right fit for who she was.
\n\nWe talk about the values fit at work, and asking a potential workplace about their values, and how to ask the right questions to find out how the values a company says they have area actually exemplified in day-to-day life.
\n\nSo Adrienne became an entrepreneur.
\n\nAs an entrepreneur, there are almost always too many things to do and directions to go. We ask Adrienne how she decides what to do and focus on. Adrienne is helped by her support network of professional friends--mixing the business and personal sides of her life. She talks about the depth of relationships with people who understand her as a business person, entrepreneur and as a mom.
\n\nWe also talk about balancing accountability partners as well as mentors that will hold you accountable for reaching your goals.
\n\nPivots happen in careers, and Adrienne talks about pivoting over the last 10 years of running She Leads Media. She talks about breaking the structure of corporate life, and how to navigate the world of entrepreneurship, which has no rules or structure. As someone who craves structure, this has been hard, and over the years, Adrienne has had to balance where she wanted to go with what it was possible to accomplish.
\n\nShe started the SheLeads conference out of the frustration of not being able to define the roadmap of building her business. She got the conference off the ground successfully and people showed up because of Adrienne's network of existing relationships. Adrienne talks about the importance of treating everyone with respect and trying to create positive relationships.
\n\nSheLeads started wth a conferenc,e, and the next step for SheLeads is to launch a podcast network to bring together experts with audiences across media platforms.
\n\nThe right people to join the 'SheLeads community are women who are in the 2nd chapter of their career journey, looking to launch and grow a business quickly.
\n\nBeing vulnerable as a woman who owns a business is uncomfortable but it is real. There’s a struggle between being a forceful leader, being direct, and worrying about being a jerky bitch. As a woman, we struggle with the balance of not wanting to be mean but also wanting to be heard. Different people handle communication differently -- direct communicators call out the elephant in the room. Being able to talk about your communication style, and the reasons you have for it, will get your team farther faster.
\n\nNext we tackled the importance of coming together with similar businesses- Adrienne tells us about a leader from her conference who brought 3 women with alcohol businesses together so that they could pool resources, collaborate, and get the combined power of their distribution, and how they were able to track KPIs of how things have improved since coming together.
\n\nFinally, we talk about finding balance and keeping everything together. Adrienne takes time daily to meditate (or at least take 3 deep breaths), get outside into some fresh air, and regular exercise. And the fun of exercising with a friend…
\n\nThe next SheLeads conference will be in October of 2020, and the SheLeads Podcast Network can be found at https://sheleads.podcastnetwork.io/
","summary":"Building the She Leads conference and podcast network, Adrienne Garland talks with Liz and Kat.","date_published":"2020-03-10T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/74280cf9-10f5-40be-8aec-6cde9535d758.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":34824195,"duration_in_seconds":2902}]},{"id":"a8b3096c-9ca3-434a-a6ed-ac37a033ff68","title":"Episode 30: Resilience and mentoring with Phil Strazzulla","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/30-resilience-and-mentoring-phil-strazzulla","content_text":"This week we welcome Phil Strazzulla. Phil has an interesting journey as a startup CEO, speaker, educator, mentor, and investor. Phil always knew he wanted to go into business and be a CEO, but what happens when that career vision seems stalled out before you really get started?\n\nPhil started in college interning at a start-up, and always wanted to be an entrepreneur. He went into investment banking after school -- but that career goal seemed far away when he got laid off in 2008. At that point, what do you do? Phil was able to do some internships and anything else he could volunteer for to get experience. He blogged and worked on his personal brand in tech and investing. Later, he got a job with a venture capital firm, went to business school, taught himself to code, and now is on his second successful start-up, Select Software Reviews, which helps HR departments navigate the landscape of technology solutions.\n\nPhil’s a planner, but we wanted to know what he was able to plan, and where he had to change and adapt. While he predicted as a kid that he’d go to Harvard for his MBA and be a CEO, he felt like he followed what he was drawn to, and kept an open mind when his original plan (investment banking, investing, start-up) was derailed by getting laid off early in his career.\n\nKat asked about the gifts of being laid off. It turns out that Phil didn't like his banking job, where he was working 24/7. In fact, he was relieved to find what he really wanted -- by not having a smoothly-paved path through the world of finance and business -- as compared to the \"ideal\" path that younger Phil had laid out.\n\nPhil was out of work for a year. It was emotionally challenging. He watched his peers who were working, while he felt left behind. He took unpaid internships, lived on unemployment, and found mentors that helped rebuild his confidence. This allowed him to build skills, network and get job offers.\n\nPhil actually turned down some jobs until he got what he really wanted: a job he interviewed for for months. The experience helped Phil access his own creativity and resilience. \n\nNow Phil is a mentor to others.\n\nPhil talks about looking his experience looking a job, and treating that search like a job! Going to “work,” dressing for work, improving your skills, keeping a spreadsheet of all the jobs you’re looking at. Treating it like sales process, and making sure you “hit your numbers” and keep tricking yourself into knowing that there is a job and a mentor out there for you.\n\nWe ask who good mentees are for Phil and how he finds them. One example is a client who asked him to read business essays. Phil makes sure the people he mentors are open to feedback to be a good fit for him to work with.\n\nHe talks about differentiating what you do: write, make videos, go to events, blog, and develop a personal brand to stand out from your resume, especially if you have a gap on your resume. \n\nFor junior folks, pick something you think is interesting to you and try it out. Do the best you can, meet people, get referrals and get to know yourself. Try things and see what you think, and the reflect and be aware as you go through the experience.\n\nWhen you are job searching, although it's hard, you build so many communication skills: you get tougher, you learn how to approach people, how to connect, and how to follow up. All these are great entrepreneurial skills.\n\n“There’s always a silver lining, and if you keep focusing on that, you’re going to enjoy it more, learn more and have better outcomes.”\n\nFor the last 6 years, Phil has been in the world of HR software. He finds HR to be the intersection of people, careers and business and sees how buying the right HR software can help your career or hurt it.\n\nPhil also keeps things interesting by investing and following up with other hobbies. You can find him at www.selectsoftwarereviews.com, www.philstrazzulla.com and on Linkedin and Twitter.","content_html":"This week we welcome Phil Strazzulla. Phil has an interesting journey as a startup CEO, speaker, educator, mentor, and investor. Phil always knew he wanted to go into business and be a CEO, but what happens when that career vision seems stalled out before you really get started?
\n\nPhil started in college interning at a start-up, and always wanted to be an entrepreneur. He went into investment banking after school -- but that career goal seemed far away when he got laid off in 2008. At that point, what do you do? Phil was able to do some internships and anything else he could volunteer for to get experience. He blogged and worked on his personal brand in tech and investing. Later, he got a job with a venture capital firm, went to business school, taught himself to code, and now is on his second successful start-up, Select Software Reviews, which helps HR departments navigate the landscape of technology solutions.
\n\nPhil’s a planner, but we wanted to know what he was able to plan, and where he had to change and adapt. While he predicted as a kid that he’d go to Harvard for his MBA and be a CEO, he felt like he followed what he was drawn to, and kept an open mind when his original plan (investment banking, investing, start-up) was derailed by getting laid off early in his career.
\n\nKat asked about the gifts of being laid off. It turns out that Phil didn't like his banking job, where he was working 24/7. In fact, he was relieved to find what he really wanted -- by not having a smoothly-paved path through the world of finance and business -- as compared to the "ideal" path that younger Phil had laid out.
\n\nPhil was out of work for a year. It was emotionally challenging. He watched his peers who were working, while he felt left behind. He took unpaid internships, lived on unemployment, and found mentors that helped rebuild his confidence. This allowed him to build skills, network and get job offers.
\n\nPhil actually turned down some jobs until he got what he really wanted: a job he interviewed for for months. The experience helped Phil access his own creativity and resilience.
\n\nNow Phil is a mentor to others.
\n\nPhil talks about looking his experience looking a job, and treating that search like a job! Going to “work,” dressing for work, improving your skills, keeping a spreadsheet of all the jobs you’re looking at. Treating it like sales process, and making sure you “hit your numbers” and keep tricking yourself into knowing that there is a job and a mentor out there for you.
\n\nWe ask who good mentees are for Phil and how he finds them. One example is a client who asked him to read business essays. Phil makes sure the people he mentors are open to feedback to be a good fit for him to work with.
\n\nHe talks about differentiating what you do: write, make videos, go to events, blog, and develop a personal brand to stand out from your resume, especially if you have a gap on your resume.
\n\nFor junior folks, pick something you think is interesting to you and try it out. Do the best you can, meet people, get referrals and get to know yourself. Try things and see what you think, and the reflect and be aware as you go through the experience.
\n\nWhen you are job searching, although it's hard, you build so many communication skills: you get tougher, you learn how to approach people, how to connect, and how to follow up. All these are great entrepreneurial skills.
\n\n“There’s always a silver lining, and if you keep focusing on that, you’re going to enjoy it more, learn more and have better outcomes.”
\n\nFor the last 6 years, Phil has been in the world of HR software. He finds HR to be the intersection of people, careers and business and sees how buying the right HR software can help your career or hurt it.
\n\nPhil also keeps things interesting by investing and following up with other hobbies. You can find him at www.selectsoftwarereviews.com, www.philstrazzulla.com and on Linkedin and Twitter.
","summary":"He always wanted to be CEO, but what happens when the road seems blocked? Phil Strazzulla joins Kat and Liz to talk about his career journey.","date_published":"2020-02-25T06:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/a8b3096c-9ca3-434a-a6ed-ac37a033ff68.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":44236849,"duration_in_seconds":2211}]},{"id":"5b91a6c0-374c-4abf-a606-227d411bedac","title":"Episode 29: Flat, Fluid, and Fast with Brynne Kennedy","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/29-flat-fluid-fast-brynne-kennedy","content_text":"Welcome Brynne Kennedy - author, entrepreneur and congressional hopeful for CA’s 4th district.\n\nBrynne started Topia- an HR and talent resources software company that she grew to a global company with 100s of staff, wrote a book called Flat, Fluid, and Fast and and now is running for Congress!\n\nWhat can companies do to mobilize the workforce. Look at developing a portfolio of skills and marketing them across different verticals. If companies hire for skills, they can open up their definitions of employment and give more people opportunities to people in all stages of their careers.\n\nWe talk about benefits for contractors and how that can work or not in today’s economy and the contrast between careers and stability 40 years ago with today. When we have more flexible work and entrepreneurial activity, we need to look at potential to buy into healthcare or pensions.\n\nWe talk about building an aligned company with a remote workplace, and having intention about the type of workplace (in office, flexible, remote) and then establishing cultural norms like how to handle meetings where some people are remote.\n\nWe talk about balancing office space vs remote and how to choose what roles can be remote. Brynne feels like it’s more about the times in the company evolution. Once there is alignment, let people go and execute, but bring them together during strategic times.\n\nBrynne talks about setting up communication systems first (Slack, Bluejeans etc) and how it’s important for people to meet and build in-person camaraderie and then keep that up via video conferences, defaulting to video.\n\nWe discuss boundaries, especially when being remote, and being ok with blocking calendars and communicating limits both top down and bottom up.\n\nWe also talk about learning and being in the trades and having to learn from others, but also teach others. Learning from more experienced people, both in the corporate world and trade world, has stopped being celebrated. Part of Brynne’s platform is around apprenticeships. Working across different jobs, you get to build out your Board of Advisors and meet people in a variety of roles, but people always want mentors within companies, so that’s important. \n\nCongress- Brynne ran for Congress after working with lawmakers to talk about innovation and saw that only a small number of Congress people had a business background or technical acumen. She wants to use business knowledge to progress benefits for people. She sees partisanship vs solving problems for people’s jobs, lives and safety. ","content_html":"Welcome Brynne Kennedy - author, entrepreneur and congressional hopeful for CA’s 4th district.
\n\nBrynne started Topia- an HR and talent resources software company that she grew to a global company with 100s of staff, wrote a book called Flat, Fluid, and Fast and and now is running for Congress!
\n\nWhat can companies do to mobilize the workforce. Look at developing a portfolio of skills and marketing them across different verticals. If companies hire for skills, they can open up their definitions of employment and give more people opportunities to people in all stages of their careers.
\n\nWe talk about benefits for contractors and how that can work or not in today’s economy and the contrast between careers and stability 40 years ago with today. When we have more flexible work and entrepreneurial activity, we need to look at potential to buy into healthcare or pensions.
\n\nWe talk about building an aligned company with a remote workplace, and having intention about the type of workplace (in office, flexible, remote) and then establishing cultural norms like how to handle meetings where some people are remote.
\n\nWe talk about balancing office space vs remote and how to choose what roles can be remote. Brynne feels like it’s more about the times in the company evolution. Once there is alignment, let people go and execute, but bring them together during strategic times.
\n\nBrynne talks about setting up communication systems first (Slack, Bluejeans etc) and how it’s important for people to meet and build in-person camaraderie and then keep that up via video conferences, defaulting to video.
\n\nWe discuss boundaries, especially when being remote, and being ok with blocking calendars and communicating limits both top down and bottom up.
\n\nWe also talk about learning and being in the trades and having to learn from others, but also teach others. Learning from more experienced people, both in the corporate world and trade world, has stopped being celebrated. Part of Brynne’s platform is around apprenticeships. Working across different jobs, you get to build out your Board of Advisors and meet people in a variety of roles, but people always want mentors within companies, so that’s important.
\n\nCongress- Brynne ran for Congress after working with lawmakers to talk about innovation and saw that only a small number of Congress people had a business background or technical acumen. She wants to use business knowledge to progress benefits for people. She sees partisanship vs solving problems for people’s jobs, lives and safety.
","summary":"Brynne Kennedy - author, entrepreneur, and congressional candidate - joins Liz & Kat to talk agility and productivity. ","date_published":"2020-02-11T11:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/5b91a6c0-374c-4abf-a606-227d411bedac.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":35332128,"duration_in_seconds":2523}]},{"id":"aa7ebf2f-fdaf-46eb-bd7c-f1c52c19ff9a","title":"Episode 28: Overlapping circles of career and parenting with Kim Lindauer","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/28-overlapping-circles-of-career-and-parenting-with-kim-lindauer","content_text":"This week we welcome Kim Lindauer. Kim is the owner of Kim’s Gym and founder of My Venn Life, her new endeavor built to help and support moms who are entrepreneurs. \n\nAfter 18 years of owning her own gym, Kim started My Venn Life to support other moms who own businesses. She saw a lot of support for male business owners, and wanted to support business people who are also moms in a space that was tuned to them. It's a community of like-minded women to support each other in building their businesses.\n\nMoms can’t turn off \"momming'… They have different expectations around what it means to be a primary parent and the pressure to be involved. Mom entrepreneurs have real-world external pressures as well as others that they impose on themselves.\n\nHow does Kim parent 3 boys and run 2 businesses? Sometimes it’s messy, and sometimes it’s graceful. After reading Dropping the Ball by Tiffany Dufu, Kim practices \"dropping the ball\" herself, and she realizes that all emails asking for help aren’t talking to her directly. \n\nOne of Kim’s greatest pieces of advice for entrepreneurs is to give yourself space to think about the problems you are trying to solve. Think out steps and give yourself time to have ideas. You have to have time to have ideas, to think through and process them, and to envision the steps involved in executing. \n\nWe talk about the importance of boundaries and delegation. Without her staff, Kim wouldn’t have been able to build out her business, and she learned that the business did BETTER when she delegated and took a step back.\n\nIn hiring, Kim would rather be short-staffed vs poorly-staffed and she'd rather lose money rather than hire poorly. This is because she wants to ensure a high-value experience for everyone at her gym. She handed over hiring when she knew that her staff understood the exact profile of the role that the business needs. Kim hires for the long term and wants to grow her people over that time.\n\nThe community part of My Venn Life is organized in circles. The founding circle of women joined for 3 months to test the program. Now Kim is involved in a year's commitment to connecting, sharing and being vulnerable. It started on a snow day, and the Earth kept on spinning….\n\nPart of Kim's self care is therapy to help her with the loss of identity that comes from not being at Kim’s Gym daily. She has mentors who help her get out of her own way.\n\nHow to find Kim: \n\n\nMy Venn Life \nEmail\n@myvennlife on Instagram\n","content_html":"This week we welcome Kim Lindauer. Kim is the owner of Kim’s Gym and founder of My Venn Life, her new endeavor built to help and support moms who are entrepreneurs.
\n\nAfter 18 years of owning her own gym, Kim started My Venn Life to support other moms who own businesses. She saw a lot of support for male business owners, and wanted to support business people who are also moms in a space that was tuned to them. It's a community of like-minded women to support each other in building their businesses.
\n\nMoms can’t turn off "momming'… They have different expectations around what it means to be a primary parent and the pressure to be involved. Mom entrepreneurs have real-world external pressures as well as others that they impose on themselves.
\n\nHow does Kim parent 3 boys and run 2 businesses? Sometimes it’s messy, and sometimes it’s graceful. After reading Dropping the Ball by Tiffany Dufu, Kim practices "dropping the ball" herself, and she realizes that all emails asking for help aren’t talking to her directly.
\n\nOne of Kim’s greatest pieces of advice for entrepreneurs is to give yourself space to think about the problems you are trying to solve. Think out steps and give yourself time to have ideas. You have to have time to have ideas, to think through and process them, and to envision the steps involved in executing.
\n\nWe talk about the importance of boundaries and delegation. Without her staff, Kim wouldn’t have been able to build out her business, and she learned that the business did BETTER when she delegated and took a step back.
\n\nIn hiring, Kim would rather be short-staffed vs poorly-staffed and she'd rather lose money rather than hire poorly. This is because she wants to ensure a high-value experience for everyone at her gym. She handed over hiring when she knew that her staff understood the exact profile of the role that the business needs. Kim hires for the long term and wants to grow her people over that time.
\n\nThe community part of My Venn Life is organized in circles. The founding circle of women joined for 3 months to test the program. Now Kim is involved in a year's commitment to connecting, sharing and being vulnerable. It started on a snow day, and the Earth kept on spinning….
\n\nPart of Kim's self care is therapy to help her with the loss of identity that comes from not being at Kim’s Gym daily. She has mentors who help her get out of her own way.
\n\nHow to find Kim:
\n\nWelcome to Season 2 of Real Job Talk! We are kicking off this season talking about setting goals at the beginning of the year.
\n\nFirst up in this episode, Kat and Liz both describe their process to set career and job-related goals.
\n\nKat’s process has been built over the last 10 years and includes a year-end completion process. Acknowledging the wins and the emotions around the goals that were not met, and then putting them all to bed.
\n\nKat has an audio recording that she uses with her clients to walk through a completion process to let go of the past year.
\n\nKat starts with self care and making sure her self care game is strong, since it’s a high priority that gives energy for the rest of her personal and professional goals.
\n\nShe also sets SMART goals (that are Specific, Measureable, Achievable, Relevant, Time-bound) to make sure she can hold herself accountable and remember WHY she set that goal.
\n\nSome other tips:
\n\nDon't get locked into inflexbile goals! We talk about goals being dynamic - They can change based on life circumstances, and that’s ok.
\n\nKat keeps her goals in Evernote, and uses other technologies to manage projects and ToDoist for her to-do list. It's all about figuring out what system works best for you.
\n\nLiz reflects on what challenges she wants and thinks about how to stay sane, and then sets realistic goals to address those challenges. She plans to checki n monthly, and wants her husband, @erickbronson, to hold her accountable.
\n\nHow do you set career goals inside a company? First of all, know the goals of your company and of your team to insure alignment with your own personal career goals.
\n\nWhen setting career goals, it’s important to know what the processes are within your company and who you need to talk with to get there. By putting it out there, you have taken the first step to making it happen.
\n\nBe strategic about who you share your goals with: not with Negative Nelly or Competitive Cassie... Sharing with too many people who aren’t decision makers can get in the way of you achieving those goals.
\n\nIf there is something about your work that you can’t stand? Can you propose some changes to your boss? It shows initiative, and taking on problems and making things happen and that gives you power over things you don’t like.
\n\nCan your professional goals be supported by your home life? In setting professional goals, it’s important to think about how achieving those goals will affect your personal life. Can you make it happen?
\n\nOur goal for 2020 is to help you have your career be what you want it to be! We'll be talking with people about their career and their goals throughout the year in season 2 of Real Job Talk.
","summary":"Liz and Kat discuss goal setting and completions for the New Year.","date_published":"2020-01-14T06:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/814ef689-d512-48ab-a3eb-06185c70acb9.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":27202075,"duration_in_seconds":1942}]},{"id":"c612c308-1e73-4254-bc92-70309d04432e","title":"Episode 26: Leadership, training, and neurodiversity with Sarah Noll Wilson","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/26-leadership-training-neurodiversity-sarah-noll-wilson","content_text":"This episode, Kat and Liz talk about leadership development, theater training, and neurodiversity with Sarah Noll Wilson.\n\nSarah is a leadership consultant and also a proponent for working with neurodiverse people. Sarah started her career in leadership and teaching as a camp counselor and ropes course instructor. After a degree in theater performance and education, she took a day job in the insurance industry, and began to connect the dots in how to use creative drama in learning and development in a corporate context.\n\nWhy do good people become crappy managers? Because we don’t give resources and time to focus on leadership, says Sarah.\n\nSarah makes leadership training fun. She her story about finding her space and uses playful language to help people define themselves and to engage in leadership learning.\n\nSarah found leadership from managing ropes courses as a high schooler. She realized that technical training took a long time at her insurance company, and was able to shorten the training time and run team-building activities.\n\nSarah learned about mentorship and was lucky to find someone who taught her that SHE is in charge of her career.\n\nOther takeaways from our conversation with Sarah:\n\nHaving a title doesn’t make you a leader, it just gives you authority. You need to understand who you are supporting is human.\n\nGreat leaders admit they don’t know things, and work hard to make themselves irrelevant by empowering their team. If you don’t care about the people who work for you, you shouldn’t be in leadership.\n\nGreat leaders are always asking themselves how they can get better.\n\nAnd then the conversation turned to neurodiversity and ADHD. \n\nSarah shares her story with neurodiversity. She was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. She discovered it when she branched out on her own. Away from her corporate job and the context and structure of work and school, the coping mechanisms she had developed became less effective, and her ADHD became more apparent.\n\nSo Sarah has developed new coping techniques as she learned what she needs to be successful and do her work. For instance, she listens to music and uses her Forest app to keep her on task. \n\nAre we missing as a society by not actively trying to support people who have executive functioning issues? Sarah's answer: a lot!\n\nFor ADHD, it’s about finding where you get your hyperfocus and leaning into it. Liz and Kat asked what questions to ask in interviews, and Sarah’s advice is to ask people you know at the company and to wait until you’re hired to ask for accomodations to avoid misperceptions. Also, understand that people are often misinformed about the challenges of neurodiverse brains; try to be ready to have informative conversations to educate people who have misperceptions. If you can, find a leader who you can talk with about what you need.\n\nSarah surrounds herself with people who compliment her skills and help her.\n\nOn any team, but especially on a team with neurodiverse people with qualities like ADHD, Sarah likes to use the concept of the lead goose: Other team members can take the lead role when the regular leader is overwhelmed with other priorities, and the lead goose technique can also be used by any team member to help out a colleague when they're swamped or having a tough day.\n\nSarah also talks about being authentically herself: if you hire her, you get all of her. Kat talks about hiring consultants, and the need for a two-way fit. \n\nThis episode was great fun to do, and Sarah is great in an interview. It's worth a listen if you're interested in leadership development, and even if you don't have ADHD, you very likely work with colleagues who have ADHD or are otherwise neurodiverse, so that part's worth a listen, too!\n\nMore about Sarah on her site: https://sarahnollwilson.com/me/\nTwitter: @sarahnollwilson ","content_html":"This episode, Kat and Liz talk about leadership development, theater training, and neurodiversity with Sarah Noll Wilson.
\n\nSarah is a leadership consultant and also a proponent for working with neurodiverse people. Sarah started her career in leadership and teaching as a camp counselor and ropes course instructor. After a degree in theater performance and education, she took a day job in the insurance industry, and began to connect the dots in how to use creative drama in learning and development in a corporate context.
\n\nWhy do good people become crappy managers? Because we don’t give resources and time to focus on leadership, says Sarah.
\n\nSarah makes leadership training fun. She her story about finding her space and uses playful language to help people define themselves and to engage in leadership learning.
\n\nSarah found leadership from managing ropes courses as a high schooler. She realized that technical training took a long time at her insurance company, and was able to shorten the training time and run team-building activities.
\n\nSarah learned about mentorship and was lucky to find someone who taught her that SHE is in charge of her career.
\n\nOther takeaways from our conversation with Sarah:
\n\nHaving a title doesn’t make you a leader, it just gives you authority. You need to understand who you are supporting is human.
\n\nGreat leaders admit they don’t know things, and work hard to make themselves irrelevant by empowering their team. If you don’t care about the people who work for you, you shouldn’t be in leadership.
\n\nGreat leaders are always asking themselves how they can get better.
\n\nAnd then the conversation turned to neurodiversity and ADHD.
\n\nSarah shares her story with neurodiversity. She was diagnosed with ADHD as an adult. She discovered it when she branched out on her own. Away from her corporate job and the context and structure of work and school, the coping mechanisms she had developed became less effective, and her ADHD became more apparent.
\n\nSo Sarah has developed new coping techniques as she learned what she needs to be successful and do her work. For instance, she listens to music and uses her Forest app to keep her on task.
\n\nAre we missing as a society by not actively trying to support people who have executive functioning issues? Sarah's answer: a lot!
\n\nFor ADHD, it’s about finding where you get your hyperfocus and leaning into it. Liz and Kat asked what questions to ask in interviews, and Sarah’s advice is to ask people you know at the company and to wait until you’re hired to ask for accomodations to avoid misperceptions. Also, understand that people are often misinformed about the challenges of neurodiverse brains; try to be ready to have informative conversations to educate people who have misperceptions. If you can, find a leader who you can talk with about what you need.
\n\nSarah surrounds herself with people who compliment her skills and help her.
\n\nOn any team, but especially on a team with neurodiverse people with qualities like ADHD, Sarah likes to use the concept of the lead goose: Other team members can take the lead role when the regular leader is overwhelmed with other priorities, and the lead goose technique can also be used by any team member to help out a colleague when they're swamped or having a tough day.
\n\nSarah also talks about being authentically herself: if you hire her, you get all of her. Kat talks about hiring consultants, and the need for a two-way fit.
\n\nThis episode was great fun to do, and Sarah is great in an interview. It's worth a listen if you're interested in leadership development, and even if you don't have ADHD, you very likely work with colleagues who have ADHD or are otherwise neurodiverse, so that part's worth a listen, too!
\n\nMore about Sarah on her site: https://sarahnollwilson.com/me/
\nTwitter: @sarahnollwilson
Can you organize a company around collaborative projects and break free from your org chart? Liz and Kat talk with author Chris Creel, who says yes!
\n\nChris Creel, a technologist and futurist, is the author of Adaptive: Scaling Empathy and Trust to Create Workplace Nirvana. Adaptive is the result of years of research and re-thinking about how work gets down through collaboration and organizational design.
\n\nThe Adaptive project started in 2013, when Chris was tasked with improving productivity by 10-fold. He began thinking about what type of organization could adapt to the technology advances that were heading our way, and this research and experimentation eventually resulted in the book.
\n\nAnother book recommendation: Primed to Perform by Lindsay McGregor on how organizations get good at what they do vs. changing and evolving with emerging markets.
\n\nIn order for a company to be adaptive, one of its major values has to be adaptivity and change. Chris distinguished between servant leaders vs managers, and how being adaptable means giving employees the tools but also making them empowered to act on their own to drive the company's strategy forward. When professionals aren’t empowered to make change, companies can get stuck. Managers keep trains running and maintain discipline at work, but one of the aspects of a healthy and functioning organization needs to enable their people to be limber.
\n\nAs a society, Americans are programmed for change; other countries, like China, are programmed for stasis. Companies need to look to see if they are designed for change or not. Change comes at us so quickly today that companies need to be designed for it from the ground up.
\n\nAs you design your company, the rules of the road that you establish are important in allowing people to figure out how to succeed. Make sure that these norms and standards of the culture are practical so that people can be held accountable to them and can get better a them. As an example, look at the employee handbook of the game company Valve, where employees become characters in the story.
\n\nHistorically, org charts were made to manage railroad employees for robotic precision: they’re great for precision, but they're not great for managing change.
\n\nAn adaptive environment is one where employees are empowered to align their career aspirations to drive company strategy forward however they see fit. They are also empowered to take risks and try new things. True adaptive environments allow people to fail if their failure was trying to better the company and to move things forward.
\n\nIn traditional companies, we are responsible for our careers and we get coaching from our managers. In an adaptive organization, everyone is rooting everyone on, and we get coaching from our whole team to make us better. For Chris, this includes quarterly 360 degree feedback based on cultural values. After the feedback process, each person would then work with a coach -- a coach that was not their manager -- to help them level up to be a better team player.
\n\nTechnology platforms like Zugata and Betterworks helps with this type of 360-degree feedback. Chris talks about HR needing to rethink their role and priorities to be more about company strategy and what skills will be needed to successfully complete that strategy. This kind of approach helps avoid stasis in the company and in the company culture. It also helps with retention.
\n\nHow can you as a manager get better at building adaptivity within your team and your company? One way is to help the people on your team to help each other improve their skills. Pair up people on your team to achieve goals; essentially you are crowdsourcing improvement to get the team working better together without the direct involvement of management. In this way, the team’s performance will improve faster and the managers will have more time to improve your own skills and performance. You will have more time to coach and to be coached.
\n\nIn the research that Chris did that formed the basis of the book, he found that women were hindered by the org charts and rigid hierarchy of a traditional corporate structure, but they succeeded so much better in adaptive environments because of their emotional intelligence.
\n\nChris also developed a methodology to teach people how to receive feedback so that this kind of true adaptive environment could work. The feedback training was part of the coaching and performance process. The coaches -- not their managers -- taught people that feedback was the other person’s reality and to receive it. The goal is then to see the other person’s reality, and to relate it back to the truth of how you perceive the situation. For example, someone may give feedback that your performance isn’t good and that you don’t get enough donethink you’re lazy, but the truth is that you are juggling too many things.
\n\nChristopher Creel
\nLinkedin profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chris-creel/
\nEmail: chris.creel@adaptive.team
\nWebsite: https://www.adaptive.team/
\nThe Book: Adaptive: Scaling Empathy and Trust to Create Workplace Nirvana
Always wanted to be a road warrior with lots of travel to faraway places and with super status at hotels and airlines? The real thing is not so glamourous. We looked far and wide for a great guest to talk about the ups and downs of work travel, and found him in Liz’s house! In this episode, Liz’s husband Erick joins us to talk about his life traveling in tech sales.
\n\nErick has been a b2b software salesperson at both large and smaller companies, both sales direct to customers as well as working with distribution channel partners. He’s had large territories and small and has been traveling at least 50% of the time for work for over 15 years.
\n\nErick starts off by giving us some tips around air travel and points. One tip around booking travel: pick one airline and one hotel group and stick to it. Why? So that you can get upgrades and be able to travel on them at a discount for vacations.
\n\nIf Erick travels, he makes sure he's scheduled at least 2-3 client meetings during the trip. He will try to teleconference if he only has one sales meeting scheduled.
\n\nErick likes some of the upsides of travel: getting to know his work colleagues better and seeing other cities. But he misses being away from his family, and it's hard to just run from meeting to meeting -- harder than being in the office! He talks about the fact that you can’t really relax because you’re representing your company and you have to be “on” the whole time.
\n\nMeals alone can be depressing and lonely. You have meals by yourself, and it can feel sad. Erick doesn't ue FaceTime a lot with Liz and their kids because sometimes it can make life at home hard.
\n\nFrom the home front, Liz doesn’t call without texting first because Erick could be in meetings and Erick doesn’t call without texting first because he doesn’t want to interrupt the flow with their two children. When the kids were younger, Erick and Liz didn’t talk about Dad when he wasn’t home because it could bring on a meltdown.
\n\nWhen Erick is gone, Liz has to have a tight routine to handle having two kids on her own. When they were babies, it was really rigid because of the juggle. When Erick would be at home and not traveling, their routines and how they managed the children would change, and that could be disruptive for everybody.
\n\nWhen interviewing, what questions should you ask about travel?
\n\nErick says that it’s probably 10% over what they estimate, but you should ask all about travel expectations. Ask both the hiring manager and a potential peer. Also talk with competitors about how often they are actually visiting clients - that can give you a good picture of how much you'll have to be out there for your target market.
\n\nOther travel tips: try to get your stuff into a carry-on. Don’t be the person who checks their bag and makes all of your traveling companions wait on you while you to baggage claim to get your bag.
\n\nOne recent development has been services like Clear and getting qualified for TSA Pre -- these give you extra sleep before you leave and helps you to not miss flights. If you're taking clients out to dinner, look at places like OpenTable and Eater and make a reservation at a highly rated restaurant so that you don’t have to make clients wait. Bring cash for tips.
\n\nTo prevent getting sick: Don’t try too many new foods and be careful where you eat. Use hand sanitizer. Eat healthy.
\n\nKeeping up your workload can be hard. Erick recommends working on the plane, but not relying on the internet, and going home from dinner and other evening events early so that he can catch up.
\n\nWork days can be long It’s hard to get things done when you’re having meetings. To sleep, Erick tries to keep his same routine as he does at home. He tries to exercise and keep his routine as close to his home routine as possible.
\n\nEating healthy is hard, but it’s important to try to stay healthy and keep your body feeling good and strong while traveling. When Erick started traveling, his cholesterol spiked because he was ordering burgers and fries. He lowered it by eating more boring food and saving his cheat meals for date nights with Liz.
\n\nRelationships at home are impacted by travel as well. Erick makes sure he keeps his travel on Liz’s calendar, and lets her know when he’s going to travel. He tries to keep his travel limited to Tues-Thursday. He avoids Monday morning meetings to avoid traveling on a Sunday night for a Monday morning meeting.
\n\nWant to learn more about travel? Listen to our Episode #18 about conferences, parties and travel.
\n\nErick also tries to make things easier for Liz when he’s gone -- for example, prepping meals she can throw in the oven.
\n\nTravel takes sacrifice. You’re going to miss kids' activities and social get-togethers. It puts stress on relationships. The person who is home has to take everything on themselves and juggle all family commitments. It takes a lot of trust with your spouse as well.
\n\nLiz talks about what it’s like having a partner who travels. When kids are little, you’re carrying 2 babies up the stairs at the same time, and when they are bigger you are dealing with the Jenga game of their schedules. It takes trust, organization and the ability to plan ahead. It allows her to have a special relationship with the kids because of the quality time, but also makes her into the heavy. She’s learned to love alone time and craves it, so she appreciates when he travels.
\n\nYou have to decide how much travel is on your "must-have" list for a potential new job. It’s a big decision that can impact your career choice. Erick says that you’ll find out quickly if travel is for you or not.
\n\nErick can be found on Linkedin and Twitter (at @ErickBronson).
","summary":"Inside the not-so-glamourous world of business travel. We looked far and wide for a great guest to talk about the ups and downs of work travel, and found him in Liz’s house! In this episode, Liz’s husband Erick joins us to talk about his life traveling in tech sales.","date_published":"2019-11-19T06:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/a331a0f9-1ae4-4346-9464-d409bab5febd.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":51466196,"duration_in_seconds":2573}]},{"id":"af78e983-9a92-4f29-9af4-c6e9b8a86c18","title":"Episode 23: Listener Question: What do you do if your boss is unethical?","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/23-unethical-bosses","content_text":"We have a letter! This one addresses an issue that happens too often in the workplace: an unethical boss from a friend who signed off as, “My Boss is a Fraud With a Nice Car”. Ugh.\n\nThe bottom line for our friend: it’s time for a new job!\n\nPeople act funny for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes it means something is going on that is not being communicated with the staff. If you sense something shady, do your research and see if it might be a bigger company issue like bankrupcy or acquisition.\n\nIf someone is shaming you about performing your job in a diligent or ethical fasion, or if you aren’t free to talk about normal business issue -- this is a huge red flag in terms of long-term fit.\n\nAs an aside, sometimes, someone is a bad or unethical boss, but it doesn’t mean you have to leave the company -- because there could be an incredible boss in another division.\n\nYou can always go to HR. They are a business partner and an employee advocate there to help you as a sounding board. They also need to investigate when things aren’t ethical.\n\nBefore bringing up company issues, make sure your resume is updated. If a company doesn’t see that you’re helping, do you want to be there? \n\nHow do you approach these tough discussions? Slowly. Are they turning a blind eye? Do they really not want to go? Ask questions and see how they respond. Give your reasons for coming to them and lay out your case. Be logical with your points written down on notes you bring in. Slow your speech, put your feet on the ground, and see how they are responding to you.\n\nDon’t be the person that creates extra drama. If it’s not clean, get out. Complain to friends, not coworkers.\n\nWork-based facts are the only way to approach taking with someone about something you don’t think is ethical.\n\nDO NOT TAKE YOUR GRIPES TO SOCIAL MEDIA!!\n\nWhat happens when things go right? Hard facts. Company’s best interest in mind. Run your fact-based evidence by someone at the company you trust and see what they think. This is not for when your boss is simply a jerk; this is when you see shady practices or problems within the company.\n\nNO FEELINGS when bringing up unethical or shady business practices.\n\nIf you bring up a fact-based issue, HR or upper management has to do an investigation, and you’ve handed it off. If it’s a serious ethical issue and they do nothing, it can tear you apart. Take care of yourself.\n\nOther than an office romance, there's nothing juicier in an office than shady business practices. Trying to stay above the gossip is important, but if you are going to participate, do it with an action plan.\n\nIf things aren't right and are not going to be made right, the best thing you can do for your career is exit gracefully. If you don’t have hard evidence, you can drop evidence gracefully in an exit interview saying that things felt shady, but the evidence wasn’t hard enough.\n\nHello kind listener. If you've made it this far in the show notes, come on the show for some spot coaching. We’d love to discuss live!","content_html":"We have a letter! This one addresses an issue that happens too often in the workplace: an unethical boss from a friend who signed off as, “My Boss is a Fraud With a Nice Car”. Ugh.
\n\nThe bottom line for our friend: it’s time for a new job!
\n\nPeople act funny for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes it means something is going on that is not being communicated with the staff. If you sense something shady, do your research and see if it might be a bigger company issue like bankrupcy or acquisition.
\n\nIf someone is shaming you about performing your job in a diligent or ethical fasion, or if you aren’t free to talk about normal business issue -- this is a huge red flag in terms of long-term fit.
\n\nAs an aside, sometimes, someone is a bad or unethical boss, but it doesn’t mean you have to leave the company -- because there could be an incredible boss in another division.
\n\nYou can always go to HR. They are a business partner and an employee advocate there to help you as a sounding board. They also need to investigate when things aren’t ethical.
\n\nBefore bringing up company issues, make sure your resume is updated. If a company doesn’t see that you’re helping, do you want to be there?
\n\nHow do you approach these tough discussions? Slowly. Are they turning a blind eye? Do they really not want to go? Ask questions and see how they respond. Give your reasons for coming to them and lay out your case. Be logical with your points written down on notes you bring in. Slow your speech, put your feet on the ground, and see how they are responding to you.
\n\nDon’t be the person that creates extra drama. If it’s not clean, get out. Complain to friends, not coworkers.
\n\nWork-based facts are the only way to approach taking with someone about something you don’t think is ethical.
\n\nDO NOT TAKE YOUR GRIPES TO SOCIAL MEDIA!!
\n\nWhat happens when things go right? Hard facts. Company’s best interest in mind. Run your fact-based evidence by someone at the company you trust and see what they think. This is not for when your boss is simply a jerk; this is when you see shady practices or problems within the company.
\n\nNO FEELINGS when bringing up unethical or shady business practices.
\n\nIf you bring up a fact-based issue, HR or upper management has to do an investigation, and you’ve handed it off. If it’s a serious ethical issue and they do nothing, it can tear you apart. Take care of yourself.
\n\nOther than an office romance, there's nothing juicier in an office than shady business practices. Trying to stay above the gossip is important, but if you are going to participate, do it with an action plan.
\n\nIf things aren't right and are not going to be made right, the best thing you can do for your career is exit gracefully. If you don’t have hard evidence, you can drop evidence gracefully in an exit interview saying that things felt shady, but the evidence wasn’t hard enough.
\n\nHello kind listener. If you've made it this far in the show notes, come on the show for some spot coaching. We’d love to discuss live!
","summary":"Liz & Kat answer a listener question about an unethical boss","date_published":"2019-11-05T06:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/af78e983-9a92-4f29-9af4-c6e9b8a86c18.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":18238325,"duration_in_seconds":1519}]},{"id":"7c06a608-3db2-4afb-a3f1-8e4a07f91a43","title":"Episode 22: Coaching through change with Tracy Asamoah","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/22-coaching-through-change-with-tracy-asamoah","content_text":"Liz and Kat talk today with Tracy Asamoah, a coach and psychiatrist who works with people around life transitions. If you’re stuck, she will move you forward in a calm, mindful way.\n\nTracy’s background: she describes her journey from academic/non-profit work as a psychiatrist to private practice to a coach, mostly working with women, focusing around transitioning in their life and career.\n\nTracy and her partners are building an unusual practice, combining the skills of physicians, psychiatrists and coaches together.\n\nWe talk about career transitions. First, Tracy gets to the bottom of the struggle: is it the job, the pace, the place, or something within the person?\n\nSome tools Tracy uses are centered around goals and getting to the bottom of the problem. If general life circumstances are getting someone down, she wants to understand if the issue is more significant -- if so, a coach may not be the right person to help them. Sometimes it’s about prioritizing amongst all of the things that need your attention.\n\nTracy doesn’t recommend big changes if you don’t understand root causes. You need to understand where your pain is coming from before making a big change. For instance, you could be having trouble with your job, bit it could be coming from a struggle in your a relationship. Identifying your patterns helps you to know what is happening with you.\n\nWhen hearing about job discontent, Tracy asks her clients what their dream job looks like, what 'now' looks like, and then comes up with practical steps to get from here to something more like that dream job in the future. This can work at any life change -- like empty nesting or retirement. What does the dream look like and what can we do today to get there? \n\nTracy helps people take the first steps towards their goals, and then take the next step after that.\n\nAre you running to something or are you running away from it? Framing your situation in the positive when making change is hepful. Having clarity on why where you are now and what that isn’t a good fit will help you move towards something positive. Identifying what causes you to struggle will help you stay away from it in your next role.\n\nIf you don’t like the core of what you’re doing, working with a coach on what about your role appeals to you and what doesn’t can help you head towards a career that’s a better fit.\n\nWho is Tracy’s ideal client? Someone who knows they are stuck and is ready to take a step. Look at who you are and where you are and understand if you can see yourself in the new role. Change leads to growth.\n\nWhere to find Tracy: her website is tracyasamoahcoaching.com and on Twitter she's @tracyasamoah16. ","content_html":"Liz and Kat talk today with Tracy Asamoah, a coach and psychiatrist who works with people around life transitions. If you’re stuck, she will move you forward in a calm, mindful way.
\n\nTracy’s background: she describes her journey from academic/non-profit work as a psychiatrist to private practice to a coach, mostly working with women, focusing around transitioning in their life and career.
\n\nTracy and her partners are building an unusual practice, combining the skills of physicians, psychiatrists and coaches together.
\n\nWe talk about career transitions. First, Tracy gets to the bottom of the struggle: is it the job, the pace, the place, or something within the person?
\n\nSome tools Tracy uses are centered around goals and getting to the bottom of the problem. If general life circumstances are getting someone down, she wants to understand if the issue is more significant -- if so, a coach may not be the right person to help them. Sometimes it’s about prioritizing amongst all of the things that need your attention.
\n\nTracy doesn’t recommend big changes if you don’t understand root causes. You need to understand where your pain is coming from before making a big change. For instance, you could be having trouble with your job, bit it could be coming from a struggle in your a relationship. Identifying your patterns helps you to know what is happening with you.
\n\nWhen hearing about job discontent, Tracy asks her clients what their dream job looks like, what 'now' looks like, and then comes up with practical steps to get from here to something more like that dream job in the future. This can work at any life change -- like empty nesting or retirement. What does the dream look like and what can we do today to get there?
\n\nTracy helps people take the first steps towards their goals, and then take the next step after that.
\n\nAre you running to something or are you running away from it? Framing your situation in the positive when making change is hepful. Having clarity on why where you are now and what that isn’t a good fit will help you move towards something positive. Identifying what causes you to struggle will help you stay away from it in your next role.
\n\nIf you don’t like the core of what you’re doing, working with a coach on what about your role appeals to you and what doesn’t can help you head towards a career that’s a better fit.
\n\nWho is Tracy’s ideal client? Someone who knows they are stuck and is ready to take a step. Look at who you are and where you are and understand if you can see yourself in the new role. Change leads to growth.
\n\nWhere to find Tracy: her website is tracyasamoahcoaching.com and on Twitter she's @tracyasamoah16.
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk withLi Tracy Asamoah, a coach and psychiatrist who works with people around life transitions. If you’re stuck, she will move you forward in a calm, mindful way.","date_published":"2019-10-22T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/7c06a608-3db2-4afb-a3f1-8e4a07f91a43.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":17674612,"duration_in_seconds":1472}]},{"id":"49f15170-4649-4b6d-bd1c-de05a2dae2b2","title":"Episode 21: Active Listening","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/21-active-listening","content_text":"Welcome! We’re talking about active listening in the workplace this week.\n\nWhat do we mean? In Active Listening, the listener fully listens, contemplates, and responds. The more we can actively listen, the more we can practice and the better we get. \n\nAs a manager, active listening empowers employees and supports them in coming up with solutions, which helps employees thrive and builds trust. If instead you aren't really listening, you're either not taking advantage the value of the rest of your team, or you're doing most of the talking and just using the rest of the team to solve problems.\n\nThe job of an active listener is to collect information and understand what’s being said by paraphrasing, clarifying, questioning and summarizing.\n\nSome active listenng techniques:\n\n\nParaphrasing: say what you’re hearing back to make sure you’re hearing it right.\nClarifying: “Did you mean this?”\nQuestioning: Asking more about what they’ve said\nSummarizing: “Did you mean….?”\n\n\n_So what should you look out for when interviewing? _ \n\nMake sure you answer the question. You can clarify to make sure you understand the question, but make sure you know what they want to know about you. When you’re interviewing someone, same rule: make sure that you are asking clear questions and hearing the answer.\n\nLearning to be present for conversations and using active listening is a skill that's valuable in your job. People who are problem solvers and solution-focused are the ones who get promoted vs the complainers who don’t take ownership.\n\nIf you are a product manager, you use active listening in product interviews. When you ask really detailed questions, you get to the heart of the person, product or situation to realize what is really going on. The more granular you get, the better you can set someone up for success.\n\nIn order to be effective, we need to let others talk while we listen.\n\nActive listening as a parent includes asking specific questions to practice the ask and answer pieces for you and your child.\n\nIn a big meeting, if you can’t answer a question, you just say you don’t know, but will get back. And then do it! The know -t-all who is full of hot air doesn’t get respect, but the thoughtful person who gets back to everyone is respected.\n\nActive listening is also about asking questions. The best questions:\n\n\nhave an answer that everyone can access\ndon’t make people feel uncomfortable\n have an explanatory answer\n get a deep/rich answer that moves the conversation forward.\n\n\nAsk your teammates, “what do you think?” to help the team share ideas. Going around the room brings out the introverts, and that diverse team perspective will make your project stronger.\n\nHave a topic for meetings, but through active listening, you may go off course a bit. That's ok as long as it’s continuing to explore the main topic.\n\nAs much as possible, be present in your conversations and you will get the most out them. Make the person you are talking with feel like they are the only person that’s important in that moment.\n\nHow does active listening help in the creative process? You learn what the real challenges/needs/problems are which helps you build a clear framework.\n\nActively listening helps when interacting with customers because you hear what they need.\n\nWhat if someone’s not a good communicator? Be prepared to clearly lay out the vision and ask questions to make sure they understand. Ask them to tell you what they are seeing and hearing. You will have to work harder and ask more direct questions.\n\nActive listening on social for work….know your audience, know what you’re trying to say, and ask if your tidbit is going to add to the conversation and be unique.\n\nTell us how you use active listening, and start practicing asking more questions and see how it impacts you.\n\nIf you want to learn more, read Tell Me More by Michael Sherlock.","content_html":"Welcome! We’re talking about active listening in the workplace this week.
\n\nWhat do we mean? In Active Listening, the listener fully listens, contemplates, and responds. The more we can actively listen, the more we can practice and the better we get.
\n\nAs a manager, active listening empowers employees and supports them in coming up with solutions, which helps employees thrive and builds trust. If instead you aren't really listening, you're either not taking advantage the value of the rest of your team, or you're doing most of the talking and just using the rest of the team to solve problems.
\n\nThe job of an active listener is to collect information and understand what’s being said by paraphrasing, clarifying, questioning and summarizing.
\n\nSome active listenng techniques:
\n\n_So what should you look out for when interviewing? _
\n\nMake sure you answer the question. You can clarify to make sure you understand the question, but make sure you know what they want to know about you. When you’re interviewing someone, same rule: make sure that you are asking clear questions and hearing the answer.
\n\nLearning to be present for conversations and using active listening is a skill that's valuable in your job. People who are problem solvers and solution-focused are the ones who get promoted vs the complainers who don’t take ownership.
\n\nIf you are a product manager, you use active listening in product interviews. When you ask really detailed questions, you get to the heart of the person, product or situation to realize what is really going on. The more granular you get, the better you can set someone up for success.
\n\nIn order to be effective, we need to let others talk while we listen.
\n\nActive listening as a parent includes asking specific questions to practice the ask and answer pieces for you and your child.
\n\nIn a big meeting, if you can’t answer a question, you just say you don’t know, but will get back. And then do it! The know -t-all who is full of hot air doesn’t get respect, but the thoughtful person who gets back to everyone is respected.
\n\nActive listening is also about asking questions. The best questions:
\n\nAsk your teammates, “what do you think?” to help the team share ideas. Going around the room brings out the introverts, and that diverse team perspective will make your project stronger.
\n\nHave a topic for meetings, but through active listening, you may go off course a bit. That's ok as long as it’s continuing to explore the main topic.
\n\nAs much as possible, be present in your conversations and you will get the most out them. Make the person you are talking with feel like they are the only person that’s important in that moment.
\n\nHow does active listening help in the creative process? You learn what the real challenges/needs/problems are which helps you build a clear framework.
\n\nActively listening helps when interacting with customers because you hear what they need.
\n\nWhat if someone’s not a good communicator? Be prepared to clearly lay out the vision and ask questions to make sure they understand. Ask them to tell you what they are seeing and hearing. You will have to work harder and ask more direct questions.
\n\nActive listening on social for work….know your audience, know what you’re trying to say, and ask if your tidbit is going to add to the conversation and be unique.
\n\nTell us how you use active listening, and start practicing asking more questions and see how it impacts you.
\n\nIf you want to learn more, read Tell Me More by Michael Sherlock.
","summary":"Say what? Liz and Kat discuss Active Listening in the workplace that will help you succeed in your career.","date_published":"2019-10-08T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/49f15170-4649-4b6d-bd1c-de05a2dae2b2.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":23629124,"duration_in_seconds":1969}]},{"id":"43666f76-7310-498a-b023-3f83e76592f0","title":"Episode 20: Career change perspective with Andrew Miller","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/20-career-change-perspective-andrew-miller","content_text":"How do you go about considering and executing a job change? Liz & Kat talk with technologist Andrew Miller about his thoughtful process: when to leave, what to go towards, playing to your strengths, taking sabbaticals, and activating your network. \n\nAndrew is a technologist based out of South Carolina. He started as a consultant, implementing IT systems, and then went into pre-sales consulting. He then joined the fast-growing Silicon Valley startup Rubrik where he managed a team of other technologists. After taking some time off, he is now working for Pure Storage, another Silicon Valley leader.\n\nWhen Andrew evaluates a job change, he looks at the risk vs the reward. He wants a job where he cares enough to do good work, but not so much that he loses himself in the job. This is a challenge for people who work in an area that they're passionate about! \n\nHis moves have been around finding himself under stressed in a role, and lthen looking at himself and seeing if he can adapt to this environment that's causing the stress. If there is something he can’t change, and the job is turning him into someone he doesn’t want to be, he makes a change.\n\n\nBig tip: make sure you’re running to something vs running from something. Always have a positive motion pulling you forwards.\n\n\nWe talk with Andrew about taking a break between jobs. We usually recommends against it, unless you’re someone who can do it without the stress of the unknown. We talk with Andrew about how he structures his sabbaticals. Andrew mixes personal development, family time, and travel. His sabbaticals allow him to pause himself and focus on his family and wants to take time with his kids to get to know them in each age. That kind of a break, despite the uncertainty, is an opportunity that Andrew takes advantage of.\n\nFor personal development, he reads a lot. He likes What Got You Here, Won’t Get You There and Strengths Finder tool and book to help you figure out what you’re good at.\n\nAndrew also connects with his network when on break: he lunches and coffees with people who he would like to see more. He also asks for feedback.\n\nThere’s an agenda to sabbatical: get things done and re-engage when you are ready. Make a plan and put together your must have list through reflection, education, and meeting with your board of advisors. \n\nLiz asks about financial security, and Andrew talks about saving for sabbatical. He looks at the total financial impact, and being on the same page with your partner in terms of the financial effects of a sabbatical. The more your personal identity is centered around your job, the harder it is. Being a whole person, with a full life outside of work, helps with that.\n\nHow Andrew makes his must-have list: #1 is practical: location, travel, and salary.; #2 is good people and technology he believes in “enough”. He reaches out to people at the company to see what it’s like there.\n\n\nTip: If you reach out to someone about a company and they don’t respond, listen to that silence….\n\n\nAs he's doing his search, Andrew writes notes on his white board, and uses it to reflect on roles to make sure he’s on track. \n\nWhen you’re networking, you learn about what’s coming up. Sometimes with a new role or a small company, there might not even even be a job description yet, or the job description is really broad. You need to figure out what they want, how you fit, and the company may even be willing to change the role to be a better fit for you if they want you on the team.\n\nAndrew asks questions during the interview process to evaluate roles. He tries to keep it in conversational mode vs interview mode. He asks what success looks like on different timelines. He also asks concerns at the end of each conversation.\n\nHe looks at jobs that will be a stretch, but also that use his current skills. And, if you get an opportunity and feel like you’ll regret turning it down, that’s a good indicator you should go for it. Know yourself, your strengths and what you want to bring to a role. \n\nOnce he gets the offer, how does Andrew negotiate, especially when on sabbatical? Talk with peers and do online research around pay, but also tell them where you were. Tell them you’re interviewing, and this is what you’re talking about. Be transparent with the companies you are interviewing with about where you are in the process.\n\nAndrew approaches his career like the thoughful and thorough engineer that he is. Thanks, Andrew, for sharing how you are managing your successful career!\n\nAndrew Miller's Twitter: @andriven","content_html":"How do you go about considering and executing a job change? Liz & Kat talk with technologist Andrew Miller about his thoughtful process: when to leave, what to go towards, playing to your strengths, taking sabbaticals, and activating your network.
\n\nAndrew is a technologist based out of South Carolina. He started as a consultant, implementing IT systems, and then went into pre-sales consulting. He then joined the fast-growing Silicon Valley startup Rubrik where he managed a team of other technologists. After taking some time off, he is now working for Pure Storage, another Silicon Valley leader.
\n\nWhen Andrew evaluates a job change, he looks at the risk vs the reward. He wants a job where he cares enough to do good work, but not so much that he loses himself in the job. This is a challenge for people who work in an area that they're passionate about!
\n\nHis moves have been around finding himself under stressed in a role, and lthen looking at himself and seeing if he can adapt to this environment that's causing the stress. If there is something he can’t change, and the job is turning him into someone he doesn’t want to be, he makes a change.
\n\n\n\n\nBig tip: make sure you’re running to something vs running from something. Always have a positive motion pulling you forwards.
\n
We talk with Andrew about taking a break between jobs. We usually recommends against it, unless you’re someone who can do it without the stress of the unknown. We talk with Andrew about how he structures his sabbaticals. Andrew mixes personal development, family time, and travel. His sabbaticals allow him to pause himself and focus on his family and wants to take time with his kids to get to know them in each age. That kind of a break, despite the uncertainty, is an opportunity that Andrew takes advantage of.
\n\nFor personal development, he reads a lot. He likes What Got You Here, Won’t Get You There and Strengths Finder tool and book to help you figure out what you’re good at.
\n\nAndrew also connects with his network when on break: he lunches and coffees with people who he would like to see more. He also asks for feedback.
\n\nThere’s an agenda to sabbatical: get things done and re-engage when you are ready. Make a plan and put together your must have list through reflection, education, and meeting with your board of advisors.
\n\nLiz asks about financial security, and Andrew talks about saving for sabbatical. He looks at the total financial impact, and being on the same page with your partner in terms of the financial effects of a sabbatical. The more your personal identity is centered around your job, the harder it is. Being a whole person, with a full life outside of work, helps with that.
\n\nHow Andrew makes his must-have list: #1 is practical: location, travel, and salary.; #2 is good people and technology he believes in “enough”. He reaches out to people at the company to see what it’s like there.
\n\n\n\n\nTip: If you reach out to someone about a company and they don’t respond, listen to that silence….
\n
As he's doing his search, Andrew writes notes on his white board, and uses it to reflect on roles to make sure he’s on track.
\n\nWhen you’re networking, you learn about what’s coming up. Sometimes with a new role or a small company, there might not even even be a job description yet, or the job description is really broad. You need to figure out what they want, how you fit, and the company may even be willing to change the role to be a better fit for you if they want you on the team.
\n\nAndrew asks questions during the interview process to evaluate roles. He tries to keep it in conversational mode vs interview mode. He asks what success looks like on different timelines. He also asks concerns at the end of each conversation.
\n\nHe looks at jobs that will be a stretch, but also that use his current skills. And, if you get an opportunity and feel like you’ll regret turning it down, that’s a good indicator you should go for it. Know yourself, your strengths and what you want to bring to a role.
\n\nOnce he gets the offer, how does Andrew negotiate, especially when on sabbatical? Talk with peers and do online research around pay, but also tell them where you were. Tell them you’re interviewing, and this is what you’re talking about. Be transparent with the companies you are interviewing with about where you are in the process.
\n\nAndrew approaches his career like the thoughful and thorough engineer that he is. Thanks, Andrew, for sharing how you are managing your successful career!
\n\nAndrew Miller's Twitter: @andriven
","summary":"How do you go about executing a job change? Liz & Kat talk with technologist Andrew Miller about his thoughtful process: when to leave, what to go towards, playing to your strengths, taking sabbaticals, and activating your network. ","date_published":"2019-09-24T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/43666f76-7310-498a-b023-3f83e76592f0.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":52514099,"duration_in_seconds":2625}]},{"id":"34c08350-6d0d-4dfa-8fd2-f0c1c63cdfab","title":"Episode 19: Building a Human-First Culture - Carlos Hidalgo","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/19-building-a-human-first-culture-carlos-hidalgo","content_text":"Welcome Carlos!!\n\nCarlos tells us his background from non-profit to marketing to consulting. He talks through how giving it all to his business and not nourishing his relationships led to burnout, which made him re-start his career and write The UnAmerican Dream.\n\nWhat is a human first culture? Thinking about employees as people, not assets. We think about what causes behavior, and then figure out what drives people to bring out their best. When you set expectations, care about people and trust them, you bring out the best. People who don’t thrive in your culture will usually self-select, or be managed out. \n\nWhat does human-first look like in different size companies? It starts at the top. And, if non human-first behavior isn’t accepted by the top, and is called out, it will permeate the whole organization.\n\nMistakes are learning opportunities. We can’t build cultures where you can’t make mistakes, or your won’t grow.\n\nEnable values and allow people to give the best of themselves at work. Use the golden rule to know how to turn the ship and empower managers. Remember that culture change can take up to 3 years, so set milestones. Start with surveying your people to know what THEY want. When someone joins, see what their aspirations are, and set a path for them to get there. \n\nDoes everyone at your company know your values? Are they consistent? Do they drive behavior? If not, your employees won’t see you as authentic.\n\nWe ask about Carlos’ early career vs human first. He was driven by ego, and now is driven by purpose of helping others.\n\nWhat about pressure to sustain who you have? If everyone has an empowered role, the whole machine will work together to build the business. We need to take our ego out of building our professions and then we can be more purpose driven.\n\nWays to assess company culture to see if it’s human first? Ask about how many emails are received after 6pm that can’t wait to response. Company policy on remote work. Is it ok to go to your kids’ events? Carlos tells us his balance practices and how he keeps himself human first. He sets self-care targets.\n\nPick up The UnAmerican Dream by Carlos Hidalgo today!","content_html":"Welcome Carlos!!
\n\nCarlos tells us his background from non-profit to marketing to consulting. He talks through how giving it all to his business and not nourishing his relationships led to burnout, which made him re-start his career and write The UnAmerican Dream.
\n\nWhat is a human first culture? Thinking about employees as people, not assets. We think about what causes behavior, and then figure out what drives people to bring out their best. When you set expectations, care about people and trust them, you bring out the best. People who don’t thrive in your culture will usually self-select, or be managed out.
\n\nWhat does human-first look like in different size companies? It starts at the top. And, if non human-first behavior isn’t accepted by the top, and is called out, it will permeate the whole organization.
\n\nMistakes are learning opportunities. We can’t build cultures where you can’t make mistakes, or your won’t grow.
\n\nEnable values and allow people to give the best of themselves at work. Use the golden rule to know how to turn the ship and empower managers. Remember that culture change can take up to 3 years, so set milestones. Start with surveying your people to know what THEY want. When someone joins, see what their aspirations are, and set a path for them to get there.
\n\nDoes everyone at your company know your values? Are they consistent? Do they drive behavior? If not, your employees won’t see you as authentic.
\n\nWe ask about Carlos’ early career vs human first. He was driven by ego, and now is driven by purpose of helping others.
\n\nWhat about pressure to sustain who you have? If everyone has an empowered role, the whole machine will work together to build the business. We need to take our ego out of building our professions and then we can be more purpose driven.
\n\nWays to assess company culture to see if it’s human first? Ask about how many emails are received after 6pm that can’t wait to response. Company policy on remote work. Is it ok to go to your kids’ events? Carlos tells us his balance practices and how he keeps himself human first. He sets self-care targets.
\n\nPick up The UnAmerican Dream by Carlos Hidalgo today!
","summary":"Author Carlos Hidalgo talks about happiness and work-life boundaries and his new book, The UnAmerican Dream, with Liz and Kat.","date_published":"2019-09-10T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/34c08350-6d0d-4dfa-8fd2-f0c1c63cdfab.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":27283399,"duration_in_seconds":2273}]},{"id":"98c6f330-f90b-4bd9-a26f-835861b7189c","title":"Episode 18: Conferences, Parties, and Events","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/18-conferences-parties-events","content_text":"In this episode we’re talking about the fun stuff at work. Parties, conferences….the not in the office “fun times”. What do I need to remember- what’s the difference between having fun and too much fun?\n\nConferences, off-site gatherings, Club/kickoffs.\n\nGeneral rules across all off-site/off-hours rules:\n\nIT”S A WORK EVENT! Keep your “work mask” on. Keep behavior appropriate and professional.\nAlternate water and cocktails\nDon’t drink too much- \nNetwork- think of it as an opportunity to get to know other people at your company. Not just your friends.\nDon’t be the ruiner of the fun.\nThank the bosses and event planner. Give gratitude and kindness. Also, tell +1s how great their significant others are.\nParties\n\nEvery company has at least one a year. We recommend companies offer transportation, or incentivizes designated drivers.\n\nWho do you talk to? As many people as possible. Must talk to your boss, and as far up the org chart as you’ve met. Keep it light, and talk about the party. Be charming and don’t take a lot of their time. It’s not the time to talk shop, go for a raise etc….POSITIVE SMALL TALK ONLY.\n\nTouch the people you work with- especially cross functionally. Extra points if you introduce new people so that they have more contacts throughout the company. \n\nConferences\n\nWhen you’re at a conference on behalf of your employer, you are working! Make sure you keep each of your commitments. When you don’t show up for booth duty or to places you need to be, it can impact your work reputation.\n\nGreat opportunity to network, and learn about other companies and roles for your future- when you’re making first impressions, you need to be at your best.\n\nGo to evening events, and remember that you are representing your professional self. Learn. Be curious. Go to sessions. Network with speakers. If you spend all of your time schmoozing, you may be missing out on opportunities to move your career forward.\n\nIf you’re looking for a new job, be sly if you’re looking for other roles. Table job search conversations until “next week” or be discreet and don’t let down your team mates to further your career.\n\nSales Kick-Offs/Club Trips\n\nThey are not a vacation. On club trips, the significant other needs to be in work/networking roles too. You’re there to make the employee look good. Be positive. Be grateful. Be likable, and encourage your SO to go to everything. You’re there to be networking. You don’t want your behavior to be talked about. Don’t be too snarky. It might be boring, but pretend it’s not.\n\nIf you can, take a day or two after events to have a real vacation.\n\nStay positive, even if you are leaving the company in 2 weeks. Negative nellies are noticed. Shower in the morning. Don’t be the smelly person in the conference room who stinks like last night’s luau.\n\nStay caught up on incoming work- don’t get too far behind and handle urgent emails.\n\nBottom line- fun events are still work events, and you want to be professional at work. Party in your personal life, and build your personal, professional brand at work (while also showing that you know how to have fun). Good luck!","content_html":"In this episode we’re talking about the fun stuff at work. Parties, conferences….the not in the office “fun times”. What do I need to remember- what’s the difference between having fun and too much fun?
\n\nConferences, off-site gatherings, Club/kickoffs.
\n\nGeneral rules across all off-site/off-hours rules:
\n\nIT”S A WORK EVENT! Keep your “work mask” on. Keep behavior appropriate and professional.
\nAlternate water and cocktails
\nDon’t drink too much-
\nNetwork- think of it as an opportunity to get to know other people at your company. Not just your friends.
\nDon’t be the ruiner of the fun.
\nThank the bosses and event planner. Give gratitude and kindness. Also, tell +1s how great their significant others are.
\nParties
Every company has at least one a year. We recommend companies offer transportation, or incentivizes designated drivers.
\n\nWho do you talk to? As many people as possible. Must talk to your boss, and as far up the org chart as you’ve met. Keep it light, and talk about the party. Be charming and don’t take a lot of their time. It’s not the time to talk shop, go for a raise etc….POSITIVE SMALL TALK ONLY.
\n\nTouch the people you work with- especially cross functionally. Extra points if you introduce new people so that they have more contacts throughout the company.
\n\nConferences
\n\nWhen you’re at a conference on behalf of your employer, you are working! Make sure you keep each of your commitments. When you don’t show up for booth duty or to places you need to be, it can impact your work reputation.
\n\nGreat opportunity to network, and learn about other companies and roles for your future- when you’re making first impressions, you need to be at your best.
\n\nGo to evening events, and remember that you are representing your professional self. Learn. Be curious. Go to sessions. Network with speakers. If you spend all of your time schmoozing, you may be missing out on opportunities to move your career forward.
\n\nIf you’re looking for a new job, be sly if you’re looking for other roles. Table job search conversations until “next week” or be discreet and don’t let down your team mates to further your career.
\n\nSales Kick-Offs/Club Trips
\n\nThey are not a vacation. On club trips, the significant other needs to be in work/networking roles too. You’re there to make the employee look good. Be positive. Be grateful. Be likable, and encourage your SO to go to everything. You’re there to be networking. You don’t want your behavior to be talked about. Don’t be too snarky. It might be boring, but pretend it’s not.
\n\nIf you can, take a day or two after events to have a real vacation.
\n\nStay positive, even if you are leaving the company in 2 weeks. Negative nellies are noticed. Shower in the morning. Don’t be the smelly person in the conference room who stinks like last night’s luau.
\n\nStay caught up on incoming work- don’t get too far behind and handle urgent emails.
\n\nBottom line- fun events are still work events, and you want to be professional at work. Party in your personal life, and build your personal, professional brand at work (while also showing that you know how to have fun). Good luck!
","summary":"Office party? Off to a conference? Liz & Kat talk about the difference between having fun and having too much fun at work events! ","date_published":"2019-08-25T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/98c6f330-f90b-4bd9-a26f-835861b7189c.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":26782912,"duration_in_seconds":2231}]},{"id":"8a714239-df6c-4eac-a44d-055fa445b08e","title":"Episode 17: Oversharing at Work","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/17-oversharing-at-work","content_text":"We’re people, and we bring our lives to work, but what are the lines and what can we share and not share at work?\n\nBottom line: be yourself, but maybe you should be your work self. Try not to let your personal life affect your work product.\n\nWe break it down into three categories: Health, Relationships, and Family.\n\nHealth:\n\nWe all have our own filters, and your health issues may bring up issues for others. You going on about health issues can make a co-worker feel badly for cutting you off when they have work to do. You owe it to your group to tell them high level what’s going on, without going into the gory details. Going deeper is ok when someone makes the space and time based on your high level sharing.\n\nYou have to share something so that there is understanding, but the details are best left aside. When it’s your own health, you have to think about your comfort, as well as the comfort of others. Let your boss/co-workers know to expect your absence. HR can also help you to navigate your benefits if it’s your own health issue.\n\nRelationships:\n\nRemember, co-workers are co-workers first. And they may judge your less-than-stellar relationship decisions.\n\nBottom line: the less drama the better.\n\nHaving too many vulnerabilities at work can impact your career, and people can use them against you.\n\nMinimize money, politics and sex details- keep it light and be careful about who you share with. There can be career impacts to oversharing about your personal world.\n\nFamily:\n\nKeep your childhood drama in your childhood. If it’s impacting you at work, go to a coach, therapist or even a friend outside of work. Don’t unpack it with co-workers, because that could potentially impact your career. Don’t let your past influence your future.\n\nFamily planning issues don’t need to be discussed- everyone doesn’t know that you’re rushing home at lunch to make a baby. Remember, you don’t want to share anything that they can picture the next time you’re presenting.\n\nPeople don’t want to hear the nitty gritty of your fertility journey. They want to hear the happy version at the end.\n\nPeople want to hear the high level about your kids. They want to hear about Annie rocking her softball game, but not the play-by-play. \n\nKeep the details for lunches with co-workers in a similar situation as you. You want to be sharing equally- not the oversharing co-worker.\n\nTip- if someone is oversharing or asking personal questions, you can change the subject, or say something like, “Wow- that’s a personal question!” like Kat’s grandmother would say. You can also bow out saying that you have work to get done (since that’s where you are).\n\nWork friends are awesome- look at us! \n\nWhen you’re sharing, make sure it’s something you’re ok being spread. The jucier it is, the faster it spreads. \n\nThink about what you’re sharing, and make sure that your future work life won’t be impacted by your share. Have true friends outside of work who you can share with without career issues.\n\nYour Personal Board of Directors can also help you navigate personal issues at work, and help be your resources outside your workplace. You can also share with us!","content_html":"We’re people, and we bring our lives to work, but what are the lines and what can we share and not share at work?
\n\nBottom line: be yourself, but maybe you should be your work self. Try not to let your personal life affect your work product.
\n\nWe break it down into three categories: Health, Relationships, and Family.
\n\nHealth:
\n\nWe all have our own filters, and your health issues may bring up issues for others. You going on about health issues can make a co-worker feel badly for cutting you off when they have work to do. You owe it to your group to tell them high level what’s going on, without going into the gory details. Going deeper is ok when someone makes the space and time based on your high level sharing.
\n\nYou have to share something so that there is understanding, but the details are best left aside. When it’s your own health, you have to think about your comfort, as well as the comfort of others. Let your boss/co-workers know to expect your absence. HR can also help you to navigate your benefits if it’s your own health issue.
\n\nRelationships:
\n\nRemember, co-workers are co-workers first. And they may judge your less-than-stellar relationship decisions.
\n\nBottom line: the less drama the better.
\n\nHaving too many vulnerabilities at work can impact your career, and people can use them against you.
\n\nMinimize money, politics and sex details- keep it light and be careful about who you share with. There can be career impacts to oversharing about your personal world.
\n\nFamily:
\n\nKeep your childhood drama in your childhood. If it’s impacting you at work, go to a coach, therapist or even a friend outside of work. Don’t unpack it with co-workers, because that could potentially impact your career. Don’t let your past influence your future.
\n\nFamily planning issues don’t need to be discussed- everyone doesn’t know that you’re rushing home at lunch to make a baby. Remember, you don’t want to share anything that they can picture the next time you’re presenting.
\n\nPeople don’t want to hear the nitty gritty of your fertility journey. They want to hear the happy version at the end.
\n\nPeople want to hear the high level about your kids. They want to hear about Annie rocking her softball game, but not the play-by-play.
\n\nKeep the details for lunches with co-workers in a similar situation as you. You want to be sharing equally- not the oversharing co-worker.
\n\nTip- if someone is oversharing or asking personal questions, you can change the subject, or say something like, “Wow- that’s a personal question!” like Kat’s grandmother would say. You can also bow out saying that you have work to get done (since that’s where you are).
\n\nWork friends are awesome- look at us!
\n\nWhen you’re sharing, make sure it’s something you’re ok being spread. The jucier it is, the faster it spreads.
\n\nThink about what you’re sharing, and make sure that your future work life won’t be impacted by your share. Have true friends outside of work who you can share with without career issues.
\n\nYour Personal Board of Directors can also help you navigate personal issues at work, and help be your resources outside your workplace. You can also share with us!
","summary":"Liz and Kat share their advice on being authentic, sharing appropriately and avoiding being the person who shares too much at work.","date_published":"2019-08-13T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/8a714239-df6c-4eac-a44d-055fa445b08e.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":23086382,"duration_in_seconds":1923}]},{"id":"e10923bb-96e7-4dbb-8905-a6d195ae7ad8","title":"Episode 16: Building Effective Teams with J. Mike Smith","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/16-building-effective-teams-j-mike-smith","content_text":"Welcome to Liz and Kat’s former boss, J. Mike Smith from BackWest Consulting! We invited Mike on to talk about teams, building teams, what makes good teams, and how to be good team member.\n\n\n\nFirst, Mike breaks down for us the difference between teams and work groups. What are the interdependencies? Building a goal, vision and figure out what the team is trying to do?\n\nProcess of building a team- Mike calls it the Road Trip. 1. Figure out destination. 2. Figure out milestones 3. Who does what? 4. How do we want to work together?\n\nMike tells us why diverse teams - not just gender and race- can power a company. Need to understand the different pieces needed for a successful outcome.\n\nOften in early hiring, we access our networks and hire people who are like us, and then bring in resources once we’ve exhausted our networks. Mike wants you to establish culture early with your early hires, and when you hire a diverse team early, it will permeate your culture.\n\nBeing purpose driven is part of culture, but so is deciding early how to work together. If people don’t like how you’re working together, they will self-select out.\n\nNot everyone is a great teammate- if you need synergy of a great team, make sure that you find people who will work well together.\n\nWhen putting together a team, do some vetting to see how people work with others. Having values be an iterative conversation. Have consistency and repeating conversations in multiple ways to keep everyone on the same page.\n\nIf you’re intentional about how you form and nurture teams, it can be incredible. \n\nWe talk about leaderless teams with nobody on point, and how they work. Their purpose and milestones have to be even clearer. Time and budget are included in milestones.\n\nWe ask about roles and assigning roles on a team. Being able to have candidate conversations about who is in what role and why.\n\nDisagreement on teams- can they still be effective? What does healthy dissent on teams look like? Dissent on a team is healthy, and diverse teams will have more dissent, which will eventually lead to a better outcome.\n\nGetting teams off the ground involves project plans- what are we doing? Who is doing it? How are we monitoring it? Depending on goals, meet on a regular basis to keep things going.\n\nOnboarding and orientation is so important in starting teams- get to know each other, get to know what makes each other tick. Feeling like belonging is key to being engaged.\n\nKnow your resources- what skills do people at your company have? Having an inventory of people’s skills helps you to add people to your team, spread around work, and help people have diverse responsibilities.\n\nGood teams watch out for each other- they watch each other for signs of burnout, they celebrate wins, and they help each other. When your job on the team is done, even if the project isn’t done, you don’t need to be part of the weekly meetings, but you are part of the celebration and success.\n\nIt’s great to know when to bring people in and phase people out of teams- some people are great at the beginning, but not at the end.\n\nMike really likes ceremony- celebrating milestones, thanking people and being grateful for the experience and people’s contributions.\n\nKat asks what we should be looking for in executive teams. Mike says to look at how the executives talk on social. Steer away from hypotheticals- listen to stories about successful teams, teams that struggled, and how they like to work.\n\nRecommendation: The Wisdom of Teams by John Katzembach ","content_html":"Welcome to Liz and Kat’s former boss, J. Mike Smith from BackWest Consulting! We invited Mike on to talk about teams, building teams, what makes good teams, and how to be good team member.
\n\n
First, Mike breaks down for us the difference between teams and work groups. What are the interdependencies? Building a goal, vision and figure out what the team is trying to do?
\n\nProcess of building a team- Mike calls it the Road Trip. 1. Figure out destination. 2. Figure out milestones 3. Who does what? 4. How do we want to work together?
\n\nMike tells us why diverse teams - not just gender and race- can power a company. Need to understand the different pieces needed for a successful outcome.
\n\nOften in early hiring, we access our networks and hire people who are like us, and then bring in resources once we’ve exhausted our networks. Mike wants you to establish culture early with your early hires, and when you hire a diverse team early, it will permeate your culture.
\n\nBeing purpose driven is part of culture, but so is deciding early how to work together. If people don’t like how you’re working together, they will self-select out.
\n\nNot everyone is a great teammate- if you need synergy of a great team, make sure that you find people who will work well together.
\n\nWhen putting together a team, do some vetting to see how people work with others. Having values be an iterative conversation. Have consistency and repeating conversations in multiple ways to keep everyone on the same page.
\n\nIf you’re intentional about how you form and nurture teams, it can be incredible.
\n\nWe talk about leaderless teams with nobody on point, and how they work. Their purpose and milestones have to be even clearer. Time and budget are included in milestones.
\n\nWe ask about roles and assigning roles on a team. Being able to have candidate conversations about who is in what role and why.
\n\nDisagreement on teams- can they still be effective? What does healthy dissent on teams look like? Dissent on a team is healthy, and diverse teams will have more dissent, which will eventually lead to a better outcome.
\n\nGetting teams off the ground involves project plans- what are we doing? Who is doing it? How are we monitoring it? Depending on goals, meet on a regular basis to keep things going.
\n\nOnboarding and orientation is so important in starting teams- get to know each other, get to know what makes each other tick. Feeling like belonging is key to being engaged.
\n\nKnow your resources- what skills do people at your company have? Having an inventory of people’s skills helps you to add people to your team, spread around work, and help people have diverse responsibilities.
\n\nGood teams watch out for each other- they watch each other for signs of burnout, they celebrate wins, and they help each other. When your job on the team is done, even if the project isn’t done, you don’t need to be part of the weekly meetings, but you are part of the celebration and success.
\n\nIt’s great to know when to bring people in and phase people out of teams- some people are great at the beginning, but not at the end.
\n\nMike really likes ceremony- celebrating milestones, thanking people and being grateful for the experience and people’s contributions.
\n\nKat asks what we should be looking for in executive teams. Mike says to look at how the executives talk on social. Steer away from hypotheticals- listen to stories about successful teams, teams that struggled, and how they like to work.
\n\nRecommendation: The Wisdom of Teams by John Katzembach
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk about building effective teams with J Mike Smith","date_published":"2019-07-30T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/e10923bb-96e7-4dbb-8905-a6d195ae7ad8.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":54811738,"duration_in_seconds":2740}]},{"id":"e5654ec6-0110-49cc-a1cf-a2ea03692628","title":"Episode 15: Questions to ask in a job interview","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/15-questions-to-ask-in-interviews","content_text":"A lot of the job interview is other people asking you questions. But we've always told you that you should be asking them questions as well! But our bad -- we tell people to ask questions, but we didn’t help them figure them out what to ask. Oops!\n\nThis epsiode takes you through some of our thoughts and advice around making the interview a two-way street.\n\nLook at your must-have list that you made after you heard episode #2, and ask questions that make sure your must have lists are met.\n\nListen to the answers- pay attention- it will save you headaches.\n\nDon’t just ask the boss, ask peers and others.\n\nThe recruiter should have basic information- especially if they are an inside recruiter. Save your manager style/deeper questions for later. But, know WHO the recruiter is, and that they will know high level info, but not the bits and bytes.\n\nWe help you figure out what questions to ask each person on the interview panel, and which question to ask more than once.\n\nLook at the mission and values of the company and ask questions around how they are embedded in the company culture and processes. Ask the why and the how and hear the answers. “We value diversity” is a broad statement. “We do these 10 things to ensure diversity” is a specific answer.\n\nWhen to talk about comp, and who to talk to about comp….when you get the offer is the time to talk about the more detailed pictures around comp, comp processes etc.\n\nAsk the questions that will make sure that you will be happy in the job, and that the job will play to your strengths.\n\nCulture questions should be asked to everyone. What do people say? What does the space say about the company? Where do people think the company is going? What would you change? What surprised you after you started?\n\nFinding out strengths, weaknesses, what success looks like in the job, and what people would change tells you more about what it’s really like to work there every day. It also tells you if the stakeholders in the job see the job similarly.\n\nWrite down your questions and the answers to be able to review later. If you forget questions, include them in the thank you note (that you WILL be sending).","content_html":"A lot of the job interview is other people asking you questions. But we've always told you that you should be asking them questions as well! But our bad -- we tell people to ask questions, but we didn’t help them figure them out what to ask. Oops!
\n\nThis epsiode takes you through some of our thoughts and advice around making the interview a two-way street.
\n\nLook at your must-have list that you made after you heard episode #2, and ask questions that make sure your must have lists are met.
\n\nListen to the answers- pay attention- it will save you headaches.
\n\nDon’t just ask the boss, ask peers and others.
\n\nThe recruiter should have basic information- especially if they are an inside recruiter. Save your manager style/deeper questions for later. But, know WHO the recruiter is, and that they will know high level info, but not the bits and bytes.
\n\nWe help you figure out what questions to ask each person on the interview panel, and which question to ask more than once.
\n\nLook at the mission and values of the company and ask questions around how they are embedded in the company culture and processes. Ask the why and the how and hear the answers. “We value diversity” is a broad statement. “We do these 10 things to ensure diversity” is a specific answer.
\n\nWhen to talk about comp, and who to talk to about comp….when you get the offer is the time to talk about the more detailed pictures around comp, comp processes etc.
\n\nAsk the questions that will make sure that you will be happy in the job, and that the job will play to your strengths.
\n\nCulture questions should be asked to everyone. What do people say? What does the space say about the company? Where do people think the company is going? What would you change? What surprised you after you started?
\n\nFinding out strengths, weaknesses, what success looks like in the job, and what people would change tells you more about what it’s really like to work there every day. It also tells you if the stakeholders in the job see the job similarly.
\n\nWrite down your questions and the answers to be able to review later. If you forget questions, include them in the thank you note (that you WILL be sending).
","summary":"Liz & Kat discuss what questions you should put to your interviewer in your job interview. An interview is a two-way street!","date_published":"2019-07-16T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/e5654ec6-0110-49cc-a1cf-a2ea03692628.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":19459964,"duration_in_seconds":1621}]},{"id":"734cef07-5fdf-44e5-a44e-36c8fe1ebac0","title":"Episode 14: Mindfulness at Work","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/14-mindfulness-at-work","content_text":"Alexis Pokorny is our guest for this epsiode. Alexis’ background in sales at Cisco, and how she turned around a team using mindfulness and how she rolled out a mindfulness program for Cisco’s 70,000 employees. This program became her passion, and she launched Open Deltas to help more teams incorporate mindfulness into companies from mom and pop shops to Fortune 50.\n\nWe ask Alexis for her goals of Open Deltas. She helps people see that the ways they are working isn’t sustainable.\n\nHow does Alexis structure her day to work smart? She focuses on 3 high priority items per day, setting priorities when she is most important, and getting them done first or putting them in her calendar.\n\nMeetings- they take over, but Alexis tells us how to help us keep meetings, and things like Slack, Twitter and other “productivity tools” from getting us distracted and keeping us from getting our priority work done.\n\nAwareness helps us know how much we’re using different apps--screen time will show us how much time we are on different applications, and can help us be more aware of how much time we’re spending on different applications.\n\nTeach clients how to work with you- show them how much you focus on them, and remind them that you will do the same for all of your clients. Tell them when you check your email, and then what to do in an emergency.\n\nHow to find the best focus methods for you. Alexis shares her method of teaching mindfulness. She discusses the Open Deltas techniques, and talks about different methods of being present in different parts of work- as a leader and an employee.\n\nWe talk about how not everyone can meditate- it’s about learning to be present and finding what works for you in terms of being mindful of your time and interactions. You can color. You can run (moving meditation). You can improve your happiness by knowing what works for you.\n\nNext, we ask Alexis how to bring a team together, and building a cohesive mindful team. First, she recommends being a self-aware leader. Are you listening to your people? Do you see and hear your teammates and your customers? Alexis gives tips on how to make sure you are listening.\n\nPoor performers happen- we dive into dealing with self awareness and conclusion around poor performers. Compassion and empathy- not coddling- to look at people who aren’t performing and help them get to a better place.\n\nBeing mindful allows us to manage up and down effectively. Metrics oriented for managing up and people oriented as managing down.\n\nUsing our instincts and focusing on what someone says helps us to see if they are going to be a strong performer on the team. Sales is about identifying problems for customers and caring about solving them. When we make it too much about numbers and making our numbers, we lose the customers.\n\nWhen we’re all engaged and on board moving towards helping customers with the value our company has, we are diverging from what our PR campaigns are saying, which isn’t authentic to our customers.","content_html":"Alexis Pokorny is our guest for this epsiode. Alexis’ background in sales at Cisco, and how she turned around a team using mindfulness and how she rolled out a mindfulness program for Cisco’s 70,000 employees. This program became her passion, and she launched Open Deltas to help more teams incorporate mindfulness into companies from mom and pop shops to Fortune 50.
\n\nWe ask Alexis for her goals of Open Deltas. She helps people see that the ways they are working isn’t sustainable.
\n\nHow does Alexis structure her day to work smart? She focuses on 3 high priority items per day, setting priorities when she is most important, and getting them done first or putting them in her calendar.
\n\nMeetings- they take over, but Alexis tells us how to help us keep meetings, and things like Slack, Twitter and other “productivity tools” from getting us distracted and keeping us from getting our priority work done.
\n\nAwareness helps us know how much we’re using different apps--screen time will show us how much time we are on different applications, and can help us be more aware of how much time we’re spending on different applications.
\n\nTeach clients how to work with you- show them how much you focus on them, and remind them that you will do the same for all of your clients. Tell them when you check your email, and then what to do in an emergency.
\n\nHow to find the best focus methods for you. Alexis shares her method of teaching mindfulness. She discusses the Open Deltas techniques, and talks about different methods of being present in different parts of work- as a leader and an employee.
\n\nWe talk about how not everyone can meditate- it’s about learning to be present and finding what works for you in terms of being mindful of your time and interactions. You can color. You can run (moving meditation). You can improve your happiness by knowing what works for you.
\n\nNext, we ask Alexis how to bring a team together, and building a cohesive mindful team. First, she recommends being a self-aware leader. Are you listening to your people? Do you see and hear your teammates and your customers? Alexis gives tips on how to make sure you are listening.
\n\nPoor performers happen- we dive into dealing with self awareness and conclusion around poor performers. Compassion and empathy- not coddling- to look at people who aren’t performing and help them get to a better place.
\n\nBeing mindful allows us to manage up and down effectively. Metrics oriented for managing up and people oriented as managing down.
\n\nUsing our instincts and focusing on what someone says helps us to see if they are going to be a strong performer on the team. Sales is about identifying problems for customers and caring about solving them. When we make it too much about numbers and making our numbers, we lose the customers.
\n\nWhen we’re all engaged and on board moving towards helping customers with the value our company has, we are diverging from what our PR campaigns are saying, which isn’t authentic to our customers.
","summary":"Alexis Pokorny talks mindfulness at work with Liz and Kat","date_published":"2019-07-02T08:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/734cef07-5fdf-44e5-a44e-36c8fe1ebac0.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":31424389,"duration_in_seconds":2618}]},{"id":"f844bdfe-3a73-496d-a6e8-821ce9bd0c94","title":"Episode 13: Tips for New Managers","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/13-tips-for-new-managers","content_text":"Our Resources for New Managers page\n\nListener question! Yay!!!\n\nToday we answer a listener's questions about becoming a new manager, and how to go from individual contributor to manager without looking like a newbie.\n\nWe discuss the potential lack of development opportunities for new managers, and how to learn how to managing people and being someone your team will look up to and respond to.\n\nFirst, do you want to be a manager? Do you want to be dealing with the people stuff?\n\nIf you do, how do you be your authentic self, and stay consistent to yourself while also moving up in role. If you develop a persona, people will probably respond negatively to it.\n\nRead books/articles and talk with people about management- what’s worked and what doesn’t. Invest in yourself with a management course if that will help you feel more prepared for your new role.\n\nHave you called your Board of Advisors? Who are great mentors and managers that you’ve worked for? Time for coffee and learning from them! A great manager will share their secrets and give you advice. Who of your friends are managers? Time for coffee, and talk about the transition and their experience.\n\nGetting advice from friends vs colleagues can help you be transparent, and can help you have people who will support you without being punitive to your career.\n\nThink about what made your favorite managers be your favorite? What about them do you want to emulate? What about your not-so-favorite? What was it about them that you want to avoid?\n\nHow do you deal with your ex-co-workers? Are you struggling with imposter syndrome around them (see episode 12)? Be kind to yourself and patient, and know you won’t be perfect. Don’t try to know everything at once.\n\nAnd, when you’re in new meetings and privy to new information, take it in and fight the urge to prove that you “deserve to be there”. Watch the norms of your new groups, and see how you fit in before you jump in.\n\nPractice self care, get good sleep, and take care of yourself.\n\nWhen you don’t know an answer, the answer is “I don’t know, but I’ll get back to you,” and then do.\n\nSet up regular calls with your HR person to know what HR needs and expects from you. They will help coach you, and also help you get on top of your management responsibilities so that you know what’s needed from you.\n\nTake notes. Document document document. Make sure you have time after meetings to take notes on your interactions.\n\nWe talk about managing your former peers- learn how to shift relationship from co-worker to direct reports. Strong communication and follow through. Show them why you were promoted by opening doors that were closed to them, helping when they are stuck, and know their career goals.\n\nIt’s time for 1:1 with each member of your team, calling out the awkwardness and reminding them that you’re there for them.\n\nWe walk you through building in space with your colleagues, but also being authentic.\n\nContinually learn, build your practice and use your mentors. Regular meetings with your direct reports- keep them! And know about your employee’s lives, their goals and what their goals are. If you can help them make work work for them, they will appreciate you.\n\nWhat about when you are managing someone who you didn’t get along with? Try for a re-start, and if that doesn’t work, time for a conscious uncoupling….\n\nWhen you’re making decisions, you may have to do things on the fly….sometimes you need to send a crying Jimmy home to Ben and Jerry….\n\nTo be a good manager, you need to be able to give and receive feedback. Own mistakes, use your resources and get input to make things different. Make sure that people know what to expect in reviews by giving regular feedback.\n\nWhat’s the difference between leadership and management? We talk about the differences, and how good managers have good leadership- ability to inspire, align with a vision, give feedback, and help people grow. A manager is more about the tactical. A good manager is a leader.\n\nGive credit to others in those management meetings- and have opinions- but only talk when you’re adding unique value. And listen!\n\nOur Resources for New Managers page","content_html":"Our Resources for New Managers page
\n\nListener question! Yay!!!
\n\nToday we answer a listener's questions about becoming a new manager, and how to go from individual contributor to manager without looking like a newbie.
\n\nWe discuss the potential lack of development opportunities for new managers, and how to learn how to managing people and being someone your team will look up to and respond to.
\n\nFirst, do you want to be a manager? Do you want to be dealing with the people stuff?
\n\nIf you do, how do you be your authentic self, and stay consistent to yourself while also moving up in role. If you develop a persona, people will probably respond negatively to it.
\n\nRead books/articles and talk with people about management- what’s worked and what doesn’t. Invest in yourself with a management course if that will help you feel more prepared for your new role.
\n\nHave you called your Board of Advisors? Who are great mentors and managers that you’ve worked for? Time for coffee and learning from them! A great manager will share their secrets and give you advice. Who of your friends are managers? Time for coffee, and talk about the transition and their experience.
\n\nGetting advice from friends vs colleagues can help you be transparent, and can help you have people who will support you without being punitive to your career.
\n\nThink about what made your favorite managers be your favorite? What about them do you want to emulate? What about your not-so-favorite? What was it about them that you want to avoid?
\n\nHow do you deal with your ex-co-workers? Are you struggling with imposter syndrome around them (see episode 12)? Be kind to yourself and patient, and know you won’t be perfect. Don’t try to know everything at once.
\n\nAnd, when you’re in new meetings and privy to new information, take it in and fight the urge to prove that you “deserve to be there”. Watch the norms of your new groups, and see how you fit in before you jump in.
\n\nPractice self care, get good sleep, and take care of yourself.
\n\nWhen you don’t know an answer, the answer is “I don’t know, but I’ll get back to you,” and then do.
\n\nSet up regular calls with your HR person to know what HR needs and expects from you. They will help coach you, and also help you get on top of your management responsibilities so that you know what’s needed from you.
\n\nTake notes. Document document document. Make sure you have time after meetings to take notes on your interactions.
\n\nWe talk about managing your former peers- learn how to shift relationship from co-worker to direct reports. Strong communication and follow through. Show them why you were promoted by opening doors that were closed to them, helping when they are stuck, and know their career goals.
\n\nIt’s time for 1:1 with each member of your team, calling out the awkwardness and reminding them that you’re there for them.
\n\nWe walk you through building in space with your colleagues, but also being authentic.
\n\nContinually learn, build your practice and use your mentors. Regular meetings with your direct reports- keep them! And know about your employee’s lives, their goals and what their goals are. If you can help them make work work for them, they will appreciate you.
\n\nWhat about when you are managing someone who you didn’t get along with? Try for a re-start, and if that doesn’t work, time for a conscious uncoupling….
\n\nWhen you’re making decisions, you may have to do things on the fly….sometimes you need to send a crying Jimmy home to Ben and Jerry….
\n\nTo be a good manager, you need to be able to give and receive feedback. Own mistakes, use your resources and get input to make things different. Make sure that people know what to expect in reviews by giving regular feedback.
\n\nWhat’s the difference between leadership and management? We talk about the differences, and how good managers have good leadership- ability to inspire, align with a vision, give feedback, and help people grow. A manager is more about the tactical. A good manager is a leader.
\n\nGive credit to others in those management meetings- and have opinions- but only talk when you’re adding unique value. And listen!
\n\nOur Resources for New Managers page
","summary":"Liz and Kat answer a listener question about becoming a new manager, and what happens when you get promoted and your peers now report to you.","date_published":"2019-06-18T05:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/f844bdfe-3a73-496d-a6e8-821ce9bd0c94.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":37179207,"duration_in_seconds":3098}]},{"id":"f00a02bd-d0f3-404d-9555-d8cdf758e1cc","title":"Episode 12: Imposter syndrome, risks, and self-reflection with Amy Lewis","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/12-imposter-syndrome-with-amy-lewis","content_text":"Welcome Amy Lewis, aka @commsninja! Amy is an incredible influence marketer in the tech world, and we’re so excited for her to join us to talk about her experience, and our topic du jour- Imposter Syndrome.\n\nAmy shares about public speaking being a trigger for Imposter Syndrome. We talk about how Imposter Syndrome kicks in when we’re being spotlighted for our expertise, and how we feel like an imposter at different times in our mastery of a new topic.\n\nWe talk about the moment of risk taking, and how you feel like your stomach drops and you wonder if you’re enough in the moment you say yes to trying that risk. We talk about tips and tricks to preparing to fight the imposter syndrome, and how to do self talk combat in order to push ourselves.\n\nHaving peers and community- even if they don’t work directly with you- can help you see yourself outside of your self doubt bubble.\n\nAnd, when you’re feeling doubt, what CAN you do (show up on time, dress appropriately….). When feeling imposter syndrome, it can empower you to know what you don’t know and not allow yourself to BS.\n\nReflection with others who work with you, and seeing what they see helps you to see yourself the way your seen, and help you shed that fun house mirror view of your career. It may help to address the root of issues to get professional help if your past/childhood is holding you back.\n\nWe talk about what we need to do, finding our triggers, and how to get ourselves up for our moment of fear. How introverts fight the imposter syndrome by renewing before we have to really be in the spotlight and doing what we have to do to get ourselves ready to be our best selves.\n\nSocial media- a trigger for imposter syndrome- can also be used for good if we don’t allow it to give us FOMO or make us feel badly about ourselves. Knowing our limits with everything helps us to use them for good. The relationship of FOMO and imposter syndrome and our choices, and how we can use social media to make ourselves feel good.\n\nLastly, we use the analogy of soccer to remind ourselves to count the saves instead of counting the goals- it helps us feel better about our wins and our losses in the honest workplace.","content_html":"Welcome Amy Lewis, aka @commsninja! Amy is an incredible influence marketer in the tech world, and we’re so excited for her to join us to talk about her experience, and our topic du jour- Imposter Syndrome.
\n\nAmy shares about public speaking being a trigger for Imposter Syndrome. We talk about how Imposter Syndrome kicks in when we’re being spotlighted for our expertise, and how we feel like an imposter at different times in our mastery of a new topic.
\n\nWe talk about the moment of risk taking, and how you feel like your stomach drops and you wonder if you’re enough in the moment you say yes to trying that risk. We talk about tips and tricks to preparing to fight the imposter syndrome, and how to do self talk combat in order to push ourselves.
\n\nHaving peers and community- even if they don’t work directly with you- can help you see yourself outside of your self doubt bubble.
\n\nAnd, when you’re feeling doubt, what CAN you do (show up on time, dress appropriately….). When feeling imposter syndrome, it can empower you to know what you don’t know and not allow yourself to BS.
\n\nReflection with others who work with you, and seeing what they see helps you to see yourself the way your seen, and help you shed that fun house mirror view of your career. It may help to address the root of issues to get professional help if your past/childhood is holding you back.
\n\nWe talk about what we need to do, finding our triggers, and how to get ourselves up for our moment of fear. How introverts fight the imposter syndrome by renewing before we have to really be in the spotlight and doing what we have to do to get ourselves ready to be our best selves.
\n\nSocial media- a trigger for imposter syndrome- can also be used for good if we don’t allow it to give us FOMO or make us feel badly about ourselves. Knowing our limits with everything helps us to use them for good. The relationship of FOMO and imposter syndrome and our choices, and how we can use social media to make ourselves feel good.
\n\nLastly, we use the analogy of soccer to remind ourselves to count the saves instead of counting the goals- it helps us feel better about our wins and our losses in the honest workplace.
","summary":"Imposter syndrome is our topic. Our guest, Amy Lewis, discusses public speaking, taking risks, self-reflection, reminding yourself who you are, and being able to say \"I don't know.\"","date_published":"2019-06-04T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/f00a02bd-d0f3-404d-9555-d8cdf758e1cc.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":54163446,"duration_in_seconds":2708}]},{"id":"9b642914-5dac-4e51-88c7-55d7d9228c7b","title":"Episode 11: Negotiating Your Offer","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/11-negotiating-your-job-offer","content_text":"Do you talk about compensation in the job talk process?\n\nQuick answer- YES! Don't game the process- be clear on what you want.\n\nHolding back information puts you at a disadvantage with your offer- it will end up with low results until they know what you expect.\n\nAnswer the question with what you WANT to make- what it will take for you to sign on the bottom line.\n\nHow do you find out what you're worth? Ask ex-colleagues, do research online....and look at the whole package and the whole package value, not just base compensation. Total compensation is key.\n\nDo men negotiate differently from women? We talk about negotiating and not backing down.\n\nIf your role has negotiation as a part of the job, BE PREPARED TO NEGOTIATE, or you may lose the offer.\n\nBehind the scenes tip: when negotiating- there's a good cop and bad cop with the recruiter and hiring manager. Try to figure out who is who.\n\nWhat can you negotiate and what can't you negotiate in terms of the offer? Base, sign-on and equity are negotiable, but health care plans etc are not.\n\nMore pro tips:\nAre you prepared to walk?\nIs taking a compensation cut ok? Sometimes.\nHave you asked the right questions at the end to make sure it's the right job?\nIf you're not working, they probably won't negotiate with you.\n\nBe clear on your bottom line, and know they may say no. And be ok with walking if your bottom line is one of your non-negotiable.\n\nWe talk about options vs stock, and what that means for your compensation package.\n\nSay why you want what you want. Give data when negotiating. Whatever your reasoning, put it out there so that they can see why you're worth what you say you're worth.\n\nDo you negotiate more than one offer at a time? We answer about who you negotate hard with and how to handle a multiple offer situation.\n\nWe talk about the implications of accepting an offer and then not starting- we help you think through that decision.\nSales compensation....how it changes.....","content_html":"Do you talk about compensation in the job talk process?
\n\nQuick answer- YES! Don't game the process- be clear on what you want.
\n\nHolding back information puts you at a disadvantage with your offer- it will end up with low results until they know what you expect.
\n\nAnswer the question with what you WANT to make- what it will take for you to sign on the bottom line.
\n\nHow do you find out what you're worth? Ask ex-colleagues, do research online....and look at the whole package and the whole package value, not just base compensation. Total compensation is key.
\n\nDo men negotiate differently from women? We talk about negotiating and not backing down.
\n\nIf your role has negotiation as a part of the job, BE PREPARED TO NEGOTIATE, or you may lose the offer.
\n\nBehind the scenes tip: when negotiating- there's a good cop and bad cop with the recruiter and hiring manager. Try to figure out who is who.
\n\nWhat can you negotiate and what can't you negotiate in terms of the offer? Base, sign-on and equity are negotiable, but health care plans etc are not.
\n\nMore pro tips:
\nAre you prepared to walk?
\nIs taking a compensation cut ok? Sometimes.
\nHave you asked the right questions at the end to make sure it's the right job?
\nIf you're not working, they probably won't negotiate with you.
Be clear on your bottom line, and know they may say no. And be ok with walking if your bottom line is one of your non-negotiable.
\n\nWe talk about options vs stock, and what that means for your compensation package.
\n\nSay why you want what you want. Give data when negotiating. Whatever your reasoning, put it out there so that they can see why you're worth what you say you're worth.
\n\nDo you negotiate more than one offer at a time? We answer about who you negotate hard with and how to handle a multiple offer situation.
\n\nWe talk about the implications of accepting an offer and then not starting- we help you think through that decision.
\nSales compensation....how it changes.....
Our goal with this episode is to help you prepare for a layoff, to know what to look for before it happens, to be ready for it, to leave your current role gracefully, and how to go about a post-layoff search.
\n\nBefore the layoff:
\n\nAfter the layoff:
\nImmediately list out your questions, listen, take notes and follow up when you can do so calmly after you've reviewed your paperwork.
\nGo out quietly- don't company or group bash....take the high road (aka no flaming all company emails).
Your search:
\n\nLiz and Kat introduce Chris (who Liz has known forever!).
\n\nWe talk about human sustainability and reflection on staying healthy within the work that you do. We discuss feeling stuck and working past it.
\n\nAdvice around listening to that "wise voice inside yourself". Our brains and bodies have a lot of wisdom in them, and we need to listen.
\n\nWe talk about burnout, signs on burnout and how to listen to what's happening from our physical, emotional and happiness perspectives, and how to take care of ourselves.
\n\nQuiet time: great stuff happens in quiet. Even to people who aren't Northern CA hippies.
\n\nSetting the example of leadership on teams in making time for your family.
\n\nChris gives his answer around the difference between therapists, life coaches and career coaches. How all ask questions and find answers inside, but also coach people around how to handle events in our lives.
\n\nWe talk about digital detoxes, which only Chris and Kat have done (but Liz wants to). We go into the why and how of doing a digital detox and give some tips. Chris is mid-detox based on the book Digital Minimalism by Cal Newport. Showing how to set rules around technology during a detox and be kind to yourself throughout.
\n\nWe bring it back to jobs and careers and how to be thoughtful about our career through being mindful in our lives.
\n\nChris Gaither can be reached via his website and on Twitter at @cgaither
","summary":"Kat and Liz sit down with Chris Gaither, former tech journalist and enterprise software communications manager turned life coach. We talk with Chris about evaluating and assessing your life and career goals, as well as dealing with burnout. If you're feeling stuck, this is a helpful episode to push you to do something about it.","date_published":"2019-04-18T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/71c13b85-6736-4d90-96be-7fc6ad041c2a.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":37251197,"duration_in_seconds":3104}]},{"id":"ada8220f-96c0-4b25-8633-3873575fa090","title":"Episode 8: Help! I Don't Know How To Ask For a Raise!","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/8","content_text":"Liz and Kat answer a listener question around how to ask for a raise. We talk about the best ways to approach the topic, how to read the situation before you ask, and ultimately how to be successful in getting yourself paid more for your job.","content_html":"Liz and Kat answer a listener question around how to ask for a raise. We talk about the best ways to approach the topic, how to read the situation before you ask, and ultimately how to be successful in getting yourself paid more for your job.
","summary":"Liz and Kat answer a listener question around how to ask for a raise.","date_published":"2019-04-09T06:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/ada8220f-96c0-4b25-8633-3873575fa090.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":23304856,"duration_in_seconds":1942}]},{"id":"f5020abf-1dce-48f9-9fee-43d5718fbc11","title":"Episode 7: Asking friends for professional advice: what's appropriate? ","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/7","content_text":"Have you been wondering if you've been taking too much of your friends' time asking questions in their area of expertise? Join Kat and Liz and their guests John Troyer and Dr. Michelle Natinsky as we talk about how to be friends with people with expertise in areas of our lives without overstepping. \n\nA marketer, a shrink and 2 career coaches walk into a podcast.....what happens? You get practical advice about how to work with your friends without making it awkward and overstepping boundaries. Win-win! ","content_html":"Have you been wondering if you've been taking too much of your friends' time asking questions in their area of expertise? Join Kat and Liz and their guests John Troyer and Dr. Michelle Natinsky as we talk about how to be friends with people with expertise in areas of our lives without overstepping.
\n\nA marketer, a shrink and 2 career coaches walk into a podcast.....what happens? You get practical advice about how to work with your friends without making it awkward and overstepping boundaries. Win-win!
","summary":"Asking for professional advice from friends - what's appropriate? When should you pay? Kat and Liz talk with a child psychiatrist and marketing consultant.","date_published":"2019-03-21T12:00:00.000-07:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/f5020abf-1dce-48f9-9fee-43d5718fbc11.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":35251993,"duration_in_seconds":2677}]},{"id":"5c0c5b65-de90-4009-8bbb-9d956f04f295","title":"Episode 6: Ever worked with a real a-hole?","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/6","content_text":"Today Liz and Kat giggle and swear as we discuss a bunch of aspects of working with tough characters who “never do anything wrong”. Listen in for tips on how to sniff out assholes in the interview process, how to succeed on a team with them, how to coach them, and how to manage them. \n\nAfter you listen, you should be able to navigate your relationships with assholes in the workplace with ease, grace and without losing your cool.","content_html":"Today Liz and Kat giggle and swear as we discuss a bunch of aspects of working with tough characters who “never do anything wrong”. Listen in for tips on how to sniff out assholes in the interview process, how to succeed on a team with them, how to coach them, and how to manage them.
\n\nAfter you listen, you should be able to navigate your relationships with assholes in the workplace with ease, grace and without losing your cool.
","summary":"Today Liz and Kat discuss working with real a-holes. Listen in for tips on how to sniff them out in the interview process, how to work with them, coach them, and how to manage them. \r\n\r\nAfter you listen, you should be able to navigate your relationships with assholes in the workplace with ease, grace and without losing your cool.\r\n","date_published":"2019-03-07T05:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/5c0c5b65-de90-4009-8bbb-9d956f04f295.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":26617977,"duration_in_seconds":1901}]},{"id":"7fb3b4a4-c595-4add-b9b2-509568087208","title":"Episode 5: Even after the interview, you're still not done ","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/5","content_text":"You aced the interview, but you don't have the new job until you accept the offer! Liz and Kat cover how you navigate in the period after the interview.\n\n\nAfter the interview, should you send thank you notes? \nWould a thank-you gift make you stand out?\nWhen can you check back if you haven't heard anything? \nWhat do you do if you realize you totally screwed up an answer?\nWhat's the number one thing you should do while you're waiting to hear back from your dream job? \nWhen do you give up?\nDo people lose offers becaue of their behavior after the interview?\nHow do you manage multiple offers?\nHow to compare offers beyond their base salary, and why the size of the paycheck may not be the most important part. \nWhat if the offer is too low? \nCan you negotiate a \"best and final offer\"?\nCan you play one offer against the other, even if you don't think you'll take it?\n","content_html":"You aced the interview, but you don't have the new job until you accept the offer! Liz and Kat cover how you navigate in the period after the interview.
\n\nThis week, Kat and Liz sit down with our very first guest- super sourcer and recruiter Angie Verros, owner of Vaia Talent and host of the recruiting conference Talent 42. Angie breaks down the difference between sourcing and recruiting, helps us figure out HOW that person got your name and contact information, and teaches us the different ways recruiters and sourcers work together. Join us to uncover more secrets behind the recruiting process, and learn how to make yourself more findable by the people who you want to contact you about your next career opportunity.
","summary":"Angie Verros, sourcer and recruiter, tells Kat and Liz how she finds people on the internet","date_published":"2019-02-07T07:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/8a46b2d2-d7f8-40f7-909b-0b81f4095fdb.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":37546299,"duration_in_seconds":2681}]},{"id":"1d099836-1eec-4e10-96b1-ab6752bd822b","title":"Episode 3: You Got the Interview...Now What?","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/3","content_text":"In this episode of Real Job Talk, Liz and Kat talk about how to prepare for a job interview. What do you do to get ready to go in and meet with a hiring manager, recruiter or team? Should you ask questions? Should you have examples ready? How do you study before the interview? What do hiring managers want to hear from you? How do you talk about your accomplishments without bragging? What are red flags you want to avoid?\n\nAfter you listen to Episode 3, you will have the tools to nail your next interview, impress the panel and get one step closer to your next job.\n\nDo you have a question about managing your interview process? Email us at realjobtalk@gmail.com, tweet us @realjobtalk, or contact us via realjobtalk.com. We can’t wait to answer your questions!","content_html":"In this episode of Real Job Talk, Liz and Kat talk about how to prepare for a job interview. What do you do to get ready to go in and meet with a hiring manager, recruiter or team? Should you ask questions? Should you have examples ready? How do you study before the interview? What do hiring managers want to hear from you? How do you talk about your accomplishments without bragging? What are red flags you want to avoid?
\n\nAfter you listen to Episode 3, you will have the tools to nail your next interview, impress the panel and get one step closer to your next job.
\n\nDo you have a question about managing your interview process? Email us at realjobtalk@gmail.com, tweet us @realjobtalk, or contact us via realjobtalk.com. We can’t wait to answer your questions!
","summary":"Liz and Kat talk about how to prepare for a job interview.","date_published":"2019-01-24T07:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/1d099836-1eec-4e10-96b1-ab6752bd822b.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":32145372,"duration_in_seconds":2296}]},{"id":"b67b232b-54f1-4e01-8a24-79e0111b7464","title":"Episode 2: Starting your new job search","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/2","content_text":"In this episode, Kat and Liz talk about finding a new job. So you're looking for a new job, right? First of all, are you sure you want to jump? There may be advantages to staying. Next, do you know what you're really looking for in a job? \n\nIt's a good time to take a good look in the mirror and talk to your informal board of advisors. What kinds of patterns do you have in your job history: Which jobs did you like? How did they play to your strengths? How did you find them? What is your life like now - can you handle a commute? travel? What patterns do you tend to repeat, for better or worse?\n\nIt's also a good time to know what you want. What kinds of companies do you like to work for? What sizes, what cultures, what locations? What kinds of values do you want the company to have? What benefits aren't important to you? \n\nNow that you know what you want, you need to prepare. What does your resume look like? LinkedIn? Professional outposts like blogs or GitHub? Is everything polished, cleaned up, and up to date? \n\nAnd now as you start to ramp up your connections with your professional network - how do you manage that? And what about your personal network outside your professional life - does that come into play? One thing is clear - you are not going to find that job quickly if you stay at home. Remember, though, that you will need patience and it's going to be a vulnerable period of time where you need to take care of yourself! You have to keep the end goal in mind. \n\nGet your elevator pitch ready, but make sure it's crisp that it is not too negative! Most of the work going into finding a new job starts before you ever send out a resume. \n\nFinding a job can be tough. Remember to be kind to yourself, to keep your eye on the target, and that every interview is one closer to your offer! \n\nIf you have any questions about your job search for Liz and Kat, just use the Contact page on this site.","content_html":"In this episode, Kat and Liz talk about finding a new job. So you're looking for a new job, right? First of all, are you sure you want to jump? There may be advantages to staying. Next, do you know what you're really looking for in a job?
\n\nIt's a good time to take a good look in the mirror and talk to your informal board of advisors. What kinds of patterns do you have in your job history: Which jobs did you like? How did they play to your strengths? How did you find them? What is your life like now - can you handle a commute? travel? What patterns do you tend to repeat, for better or worse?
\n\nIt's also a good time to know what you want. What kinds of companies do you like to work for? What sizes, what cultures, what locations? What kinds of values do you want the company to have? What benefits aren't important to you?
\n\nNow that you know what you want, you need to prepare. What does your resume look like? LinkedIn? Professional outposts like blogs or GitHub? Is everything polished, cleaned up, and up to date?
\n\nAnd now as you start to ramp up your connections with your professional network - how do you manage that? And what about your personal network outside your professional life - does that come into play? One thing is clear - you are not going to find that job quickly if you stay at home. Remember, though, that you will need patience and it's going to be a vulnerable period of time where you need to take care of yourself! You have to keep the end goal in mind.
\n\nGet your elevator pitch ready, but make sure it's crisp that it is not too negative! Most of the work going into finding a new job starts before you ever send out a resume.
\n\nFinding a job can be tough. Remember to be kind to yourself, to keep your eye on the target, and that every interview is one closer to your offer!
\n\nIf you have any questions about your job search for Liz and Kat, just use the Contact page on this site.
","summary":"So you want a new job... how do you get started, and what do you need to do to make it happen? ","date_published":"2019-01-10T12:00:00.000-08:00","attachments":[{"url":"https://aphid.fireside.fm/d/1437767933/081511e1-a066-452e-ac7e-97aa78070218/b67b232b-54f1-4e01-8a24-79e0111b7464.mp3","mime_type":"audio/mpeg","size_in_bytes":31917536,"duration_in_seconds":2279}]},{"id":"708980a0-bfa7-4590-8352-bcd36d940d44","title":"Episode 1: Careers, jobs, and recruiters -- what's this podcast all about? ","url":"https://realjobtalk.com/1","content_text":"Meet the hosts! Guest MC John Mark Troyer interviews the two hosts of the podcast, Liz Bronson and Kathleen Nelson Troyer, about their backgrounds and what this podcast is all about - jobs, careers, and what doesn't get said at the water cooler. They talk about their backgrounds, including stints in-house and indepdent recruiters, HR professionals, career coaches, and entrepreneurs). \n\nJohn then leads our intrepid hosts on a lightning round of questions he has about getting a job and working with recruiters. We all are not very good at sticking to short answers for the lightning round. We briefly cover mentorships, applying to everything you see, job descriptions, compensation, leqving a job quickly, the role of recruiters, counteroffers, resumes, cover letters, and why a company goes silent in a job search.Special Guest: John Mark Troyer.Links:Geek Whisperers Podcast — The Geek Whisperers discussed tech careers, tech communities and evangelism, and marketing to geeks, ending with episode 140 in 2017. Your hosts were Amy Lewis (@commsninja), Matt Broberg (@mbbroberg), and John Mark Troyer (@jtroyer). ","content_html":"Meet the hosts! Guest MC John Mark Troyer interviews the two hosts of the podcast, Liz Bronson and Kathleen Nelson Troyer, about their backgrounds and what this podcast is all about - jobs, careers, and what doesn't get said at the water cooler. They talk about their backgrounds, including stints in-house and indepdent recruiters, HR professionals, career coaches, and entrepreneurs).
\n\nJohn then leads our intrepid hosts on a lightning round of questions he has about getting a job and working with recruiters. We all are not very good at sticking to short answers for the lightning round. We briefly cover mentorships, applying to everything you see, job descriptions, compensation, leqving a job quickly, the role of recruiters, counteroffers, resumes, cover letters, and why a company goes silent in a job search.
Special Guest: John Mark Troyer.
Links: